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Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#81

Post by rrss »

christophilus wrote: post #33
tertiary wrote: post #11

For comparison, President Trump payed $750 in federal income tax in 2016 and 2017. I just looked it up and I, a graduate student who makes like $30k a year paid three times that amount last year.

Warren Buffett is in a similar boat and has complained vocally about it. The US tax system is absurd when it comes to the upper echelon. [Edit: I mean, he's complained that it's unjust and that billionaires like him should be paying their fair share.]

Warren Buffett is in an entirely dissimilar boat, because Warren Buffett does not have enormous losses to carry forward, and therefore actually pays significant personal income tax ($1.8 million on personal income of $11.5 million in 2015).

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161010005859/en/Tax...

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#83

Post by chongli »

wwright wrote: post #25
kache_ wrote: post #17

Reminder; tax avoidance != tax fraud.

Not a crime != not an absolutely shitty thing to do

No person has an obligation, legal or moral, to pay a cent more in taxes than what they owe under the tax code. If you have a problem with people avoiding taxes, you can endeavour to change the tax code and plug those loopholes.

Otherwise, you’re really trying to solve a legal problem by social means. You’re perfectly in your right to do so, but plenty of people will disagree with you.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#84

Post by edge17 »

malwarebytess wrote: post #4

Outside of the near meaningless confirmation of Trump's status as a "fake" billionaire and how that may affect his ego, there's is an alarming piece of information here. The man owes hundreds of millions of dollars in personal loans that he may not be able to repay. They will come due during his second term. Given his lack of ethics it's worrying to me that a president could have that kind of leverage against him. Da…

As they say, if you owe the bank $100 it's you problem. If you owe $100m, it's the bank's problem.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#85

Post by acdha »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
wwright wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, which IMO is a shitty thing to do at this scale

To play devil's advocate, at what scale should I instruct my CPA not to take every deduction I'm entitled to?

When you’re portraying yourself as a billionaire you can afford to pay for your own hair stylist.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#86

Post by TeeMassive »

spiritplumber wrote: post #9

Will it make a difference?

As with all the other "bombshells"? No, because they were proven wrong or grossly exaggerated or simply because "according to people close to the President's thinking" is usually not considered credible for most reasonable people.

The last time his tax records were leaked it turned out that it was very ordinary and no matter how much they try to spin on live tv (https://youtu.be/0eB-xjDMGdQ)

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#87

Post by ryanworl »

mandevil wrote: post #65
ryanworl wrote: post #19

Does anyone have any more detailed information about the losses, specifically from the real estate side of his businesses? Real estate can frequently show a tax loss from depreciation while generating cash flow. But depreciation only applies to improvements, and it sounds like the golf courses are a significant part of the losses. I don't know enough about golf courses to determine if depreciation is a big factor her…

The article says "What the tax records for Mr. Trump’s businesses show, however, is that he has lost chunks of his fortune even before depreciation is figured in. The three European golf courses, the Washington hotel, Doral and Trump Corporation reported losing a total of $150.3 million from 2010 through 2018, without including depreciation as an expense." So this is negative cashflow, not counting depreciation.

Thanks! I was reading a different article before that was more of a visualization that didn’t have these details.

Unless those had some type of synergy that made his other properties and brand more valuable overall, those sound like poor investments.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#88

Post by tom_mellior »

mhh__ wrote: post #47
spiritplumber wrote: post #9

Will it make a difference?

Should it - yes. Will it - possibly not, on the one hand if you are supporting trump now what could possibly convince you although money is money: He's a terrible businessman, and he pays no tax. That's a huge amount of his appeal to some.

"He pays no tax" won't be a big deal since the Republican position has long been that tax breaks for Great Men are somehow good for the economy and therefore somehow good for everyone. "Terrible businessman" is the more interesting angle, but it will be covered up by the tax angle.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#89

Post by maxlybbert »

microcolonel wrote: post #28
kache_ wrote: post #17

Reminder; tax avoidance != tax fraud.

I honestly don't understand why “tax avoidance” is meant to sound so naughty. Almost everyone avoids taxes, almost every time they might be subject to a tax; some people are just better at it. When you fail to collect taxes from somebody who is following the law, that is a matter for your tax code, not a moral failing of the filer.

Judge Learned Hand (not the Supreme Court, but often quoted; I'm sure partly for the name):

"Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes" (Gregory v. Helvering, 1934)

"Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions" (Commissioner v. Newman, 1947).

People can lower their taxes by buying alternative fuel vehicles, renovating historic properties, donating to charities, etc. Those laws are meant to encourage that behavior. But somebody using them to lower their taxes is engaged in tax avoidance. Is that wrong?

Many states have business tax laws that aren't as noble-minded but are meant to encourage businesses to hire people (e.g., no income tax) or operate from those states (e.g., favorable treatment of inventory). Is it wrong to take advantage of those tax laws?

In my opinion, the alternative minimum tax ( https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc556 ) is proof that the United States has given up on creating a system where tax deductions and tax credits always give a reasonable outcome.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#90

Post by jonstewart »

rsstack wrote: post #31
kache_ wrote: post #17

Reminder; tax avoidance != tax fraud.

Counter-reminder: tax fraud /= tax avoidance. The IRS, and Congress through the Tax committee, will judge that.

Right. I’m sure he, as POTUS, and his political appointees haven’t done anything to interfere with the decade-long IRS audit into his refund.
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