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AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

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Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#81

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

It has been absolutely fascinating to see my 3 year old interact with his grandparents as he "helps" them play Scrabble on their iPad.

Together they decide to watch in-app ads; try installing some free-to-play game apps that seem like they might be amusing for an adult to show a child how they use; and otherwise explore the bounds of what you can do & learn on the modern walled-garden Internet. The grandparents are pretty media savvy ("this is an advertisement -- they want to sell you something") but are overall a little less conservative than the parents about screen time and are occasionally willing to, for example, try new apps that turn out to be scammy shovelware.

I've been thinking about getting the kid a non-networked desktop PC with a keyboard and seeing whether he derives any joy from the kind of basic, actual applications I grew up with -- a word processor program and a printer; literally QBASIC and gorillas.bas; etc.; with the understanding that this is an amusing anachronistic toy.

To be honest the biggest thing I'm trying to think about with the kids is not so much about screen time but about dealing with information more generally. Ads work really well on kids, but so does any organic, confidently stated information.

How do you convey the idea that that "just because you read something online doesn't mean it's true"? What happens when adults in your life (including sometimes your own parents) don't model a safe level of skepticism?

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#82
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol. Do you even know who Miguel de Icaza is?

To be fair, he's been very heavy-handed with his support for Apple through any and all criticism. I follow him on Twitter and, from the tweets of his that I have read, he's defended Apple every single time they have appeared in the news, irrespective of circumstance or evidence. He is definitely not an objective and unbiased source when it comes to Apple. Just because he is a well-known individual, and is incredibly…

You can download apps on Windows from anywhere and there is no sandboxing.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#83

> "No free games or games with In-App Purchases" This is a great rule. As a father of similarly aged kids (10, 9, 4) this is exactly what I would like to have happen at my house. Unfortunately, I have found games like this difficult to surface on the app store. Is there a decent source for games like this? Also, Apple needs to think of the impact that the prevalence of these kinds of apps has on their revenue - I spe…

With the kids having remote learning, the school district has them playing this game called Prodigy. It has a really insidious "premium" model that it is constantly throwing up in front of my kids. New dance moves, costumes, all things kids want. I'm tempted to complain about it, the district shouldn't be using apps that push crap like this.

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but rather maybe explain some of the rationale for prodigy using the freemium model.

Education is a hard market to break into and build adoption of a new product. Budgets are very constrained or virtually nonexistent... in America some teachers even have to purchase classroom supplies or tools with their own wages.

With that in mind (and maybe other reasons that I do not know), Prodigy took the decision to offer their service to schools and teachers at no cost, otherwise it would’ve been much more difficult to build adoption in that market. It’s very hard to convince teachers, schools and boards to allocate budget on a new initiative, when they are already spread so thin.

Now to build a service like prodigy, it takes game artists and developers to build the game, web developers to build the website and teacher dashboards, teachers to build the prodigy math curriculum, and then all the supporting teams too; data scientists, product owners, testers, operations, etc.

They either need some sort of investment or revenue stream to make the company run; and this is where they adopted a freemium model.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not really a fair argument. Parents have been over worked for decades. But 30, 20, even 10 years ago (first iPad was released 10 years ago!) you couldn’t accidentally buy digital rubbish. The kids sat in front of a TV and you had to beg your parents for toys. Now toddlers can discover things for themselves and frankly a lot of content for kids is trash. We haven’t caught up with how to deal with this.

>But 30, 20, even 10 years ago (first iPad was released 10 years ago!) you couldn’t accidentally buy digital rubbish. That's not true - I clearly remember those TV telenovelas arround here having a paid line where you could get a summary of next episode and the number advertised during the show. The only people I ever heard about calling the service was kids racking up parents phone bills.

I’ve seen those dodgy subscription services, but never in relation to anything I was actually interested in as a kid. Maybe they were not as prevalent where I grew up.

But now, everyone with an iPad or smartphone is a target. That’s new.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#85
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What filters (knobs) would you always disable? Would you prefer that Apple reject all apps that match your list from the app store altogether, instead of offering those specific ones as search filters?

Not OP, but IMO: Apps that are pay-to-play but are not 100% upfront about it should either be properly labelled as a demo or rejected. (Of course, before that we need a proper demo mode for freemium apps). I would disable for kids but not for me. Ads are ok, but apps with ads should be properly labeled and there should be a way to avoid seeing those apps in the store. And ads include the "install chains", of course.…

I agree. So, rather than app store review filters, consider these proposed "App Store Review Guidelines", that I attempted to phrase in ASRG tone:

- Games should not charge money for progress or performance. For example, games that introduce slowdowns for non-paying players or that restrict the number of plays per day for free players will be rejected.

- Games that repeatedly show advertisements must not interrupt gameplay to do so and must offer an appropriately-priced in-app purchase to disable them. For example, modal dialogs and inappropriately expensive subscriptions will be rejected.

Note that I didn't try to rewrite Notification spam or Privacy, because those are a reporting problem that has to be solved at the iOS level. The guidelines are already hostile to misrepresentation of such things, and I think it would be better for iOS to offer "This app sends inappropriate notifications" and "This app violates my privacy" reporting mechanisms somehow.

I also have my own bone to pick here:

- Games must not use in-app purchases for gambling or other chance-based rewards. All items shown as available in a given purchase must be provided at time of purchase.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#86

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

It has been absolutely fascinating to see my 3 year old interact with his grandparents as he "helps" them play Scrabble on their iPad. Together they decide to watch in-app ads; try installing some free-to-play game apps that seem like they might be amusing for an adult to show a child how they use; and otherwise explore the bounds of what you can do & learn on the modern walled-garden Internet. The grandparents are p…

A lot of dinner time conversation revolves around stuff that any of us, including the kids, have read or seen online.

A few months ago (while school was closed and we were quarantined), my son relayed to us all information about COVID-19 that he had come across online (likely via YouTube). I was expecting a bunch of misinformation but all of it was spot on! We've also talked about Flat Earthers. The other day we ended up discussing why Wikipedia isn't allowed as source at school.

> I've been thinking about getting the kid a non-networked desktop PC with a keyboard and seeing whether he derives any joy from the kind of basic, actual applications I grew up with -- a word processor program and a printer; literally QBASIC and gorillas.bas; etc.; with the understanding that this is an amusing anachronistic toy.

We grew up in similar times and from my experience as a parent it doesn't really work. We did a lot of that stuff because it was what we had. I did introduce my son to emulators and classic Nintendo games; the idea of 3 lives and your dead was a bit of a shock. But he eventually got Super Mario Maker and making your own classic Mario levels is more fun than playing someone else's.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#87
post #79

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

While I get what you are saying, claiming it has never been easier is somewhat silly. It was never required in the past. So, as easy as it may be now, it is still harder than many times before. Worse, as well intentioned and correct as your advice is, you are still many zero days from a hosed machine. Sure, you don't let them download arbitrary apps. Doesn't matter if they visit some sites.

When I was kid in the 80's and 90's, I had unfettered access to my computer. I had video game systems. I had portable video games systems. I ran an adult BBS when I was 13.

There was no controls at all in those times. You still had the option to give your kid a device or not -- same as now. And you can connect that to the Internet or not -- same as now. But now you can actually have much more fine-grained control -- it doesn't have to be all or nothing. But you still have to decide and I don't see why Apple needs to make all the decisions when I have the controls.

> You are still many zero days from a hosed machine.

It's definitely not as easy as you make it sound -- the sky isn't falling that fast or we'd all be screwed. And I block web sites as well.

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#88

I'm a parent -- it's never been easier to control what your children are doing on devices. My son isn't an admin on his laptop. I don't let him download arbitrary apps and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet. He's only slightly older than Miguel's kids, and he has a Switch (with parental controls on), but I don't see any need to give him his own iPad. When he wasn't old enough to learn about dark patterns, we di…

> and he doesn't even own his own i-device yet

you probably don't either... are you an admin? or is Apple the only admin?

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#89
post #64
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Arcade is exactly what you want[0]. No in-app purchases, Apple picks the games and gives them exclusivity so there's always good quality ones. It's a good deal if you like playing games on the iPad. 0: https://www.apple.com/apple-arcade/

A cynic would say that Apple manufactured the problem, and is now selling the solution.

Aside from offering the ability to collect IAP in general I’m not sure what the case against Apple is here. Did they do something specific to incentivize the creation of these kinds of games?

Re: AppStore Reviews Should Be Stricter

#90
> AppStore reviews are too lax and they should be much stricter

> I have kids aged 10, 7 and 4

So you want to protect your children because you can’t parent effectively? And you get to decide the criteria for approved apps with your short list of acceptable financial transactions?

What about grown ups who have the ability to delay gratification and who can police themselves? Why should your rules for children affect me? (And by the way, I also have small children, but I know how to parent their screen time)

This is another “save the children!” fire alarm. Save your own children, don’t push it on Apple to parent them.

I’m glad you don’t have any power over my world.

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