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A Few Rules

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Re: A Few Rules

#81

Post by cobbzilla »

watwut wrote: post #79
cobbzilla wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem misinformed. Did you read the article? What "price" are you referring to, that Colvin didn't pay but Parks did?

Loosing the job and impossibility to get new employment in the city. She lost all white clients except one which was big hit financially. Being very low on money having to accept help. Being hated in the city. Getting harassment and tons of hate calls. Those impacting her husbands mental health a lot. Effectively life became much harder for her and later she had to move away. Neither her nor her husband nor her mom g…

You basically described circumstances that applied to both women. They both wound up moving North due to the extreme negative pressure. I fail to see your point.

> It is not like Colvin and Parks were first blacks defiant in the bus. But Parks was using Colvins story for months and Colvin joined her group.

Citation requested.

Re: A Few Rules

#82

Post by watwut »

cobbzilla wrote: post #81
watwut wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loosing the job and impossibility to get new employment in the city. She lost all white clients except one which was big hit financially. Being very low on money having to accept help. Being hated in the city. Getting harassment and tons of hate calls. Those impacting her husbands mental health a lot. Effectively life became much harder for her and later she had to move away. Neither her nor her husband nor her mom g…

You basically described circumstances that applied to both women. They both wound up moving North due to the extreme negative pressure. I fail to see your point. > It is not like Colvin and Parks were first blacks defiant in the bus. But Parks was using Colvins story for months and Colvin joined her group. Citation requested.

Citation: the rebellious life of rosa parks book.

You got there them knowing each other, you got there historical context and you got there reasons why Parks was seen as reliable and tough. You also got there how Colwin case influenced WPC and Parks herself. Fun fact: Parks forced Colvin to retell arrest story at each youth meeting.

Even wiki you referenced has Colvin commenting on Parks and vice versa. You think it is possible without them knowing each other? The wiki you posted had Colvin being sexually assaulted by cops, you think it was outlier bad apple cops? Oh, and besides Colvin and Parks there was yet another teenager bus arrest case prior considered, through I forgot the name.

Or picjlk really any other detailed book on topic.

Also Colvin was not pregnant at time of refusing to stand up, that happened slightly later and I did not read about her partner being white. Just him being much older.

Re: A Few Rules

#83

Post by dredmorbius »

watwut wrote: post #80
dredmorbius wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24588363

That does not make Parks refusal story telling at all? That is just somebody else also defiantly refusing to stand up? No part of Claudette story contradits anything I wrote. No part of detailed Parks story co tradicta none of that either. Neither of the two were the first black arrested on the bus. Arrests, beatings, occasional murders or rape happened before the two. The segregation was not keeping itself magically…

You seem to ce conflating "story telling" with "fabricated incident with no basis in reality". That is not what it means, at least not in all cases.

Rather, story telling includes relating true actual events in a form that creates sympathy and interest from the audience and public. Disintermediating elements of luck, randomness, or familiarity by repetition can be hard. The point remains that Parks was seen by Black civil rights activists and the NAACP, and at least arguably demonstrated by the 1950s US press and public to be a compelling narrative.

There's no claim that Parks was the first refuser or arresstee (she clearly was not), or that her story is false. Those are all red herrings. The point is that the story was sympathetic and compelling.

I'd think this might be more clearly apparent in fewer than four explanations. I won't attempt a fifth.

Re: A Few Rules

#84

Post by watwut »

dredmorbius wrote: post #83
watwut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not make Parks refusal story telling at all? That is just somebody else also defiantly refusing to stand up? No part of Claudette story contradits anything I wrote. No part of detailed Parks story co tradicta none of that either. Neither of the two were the first black arrested on the bus. Arrests, beatings, occasional murders or rape happened before the two. The segregation was not keeping itself magically…

You seem to ce conflating "story telling" with "fabricated incident with no basis in reality". That is not what it means, at least not in all cases. Rather, story telling includes relating true actual events in a form that creates sympathy and interest from the audience and public. Disintermediating elements of luck, randomness, or familiarity by repetition can be hard. The point remains that Parks was seen by Black…

Except that I did not said any compelling story at all.

OP: Behaviors and outcomes rarely change, but history is driven by surprising events...?

Me: Civil rights movement was started by Rosa Park sitting on the bus. It was surprising big event. Most characters in that story kept going by same scripts as before, with only slight variations and only little bit of learning from previous experiences.

(The civil rights movement as a thing lead by King which was different operation then NAACP was something no one expected to happen. No one was expecting year long heavily written about boycotts with few bombings mixed in either.)

You: This better fits the "compelling narrative" rather than "surprising events" mode. Perhaps combining them.

Me: In fact, Rosa Parks being arrested was surprising to everyone who knew her. The first protests organized by WPC were surprising to Rosa Parks and whole bunch of other people who considered Mongotmery blacks rather passive and disunited. Rosa Parks standing up for herself refusing humiliation was completely in character for her. Bus driver demanding her arrest was normal behavior for him. No one did sudden 180, they all went by the same scripts. The general track record of activism in Mongotmery was to not achieve anything and being only few in numbers.

So again, how exactly does this not fit simultaneously "surprising events" and "behaviors and outcomes rarely change". You can make story out of it, but I did not.

---------------------

Colvin case not being publicized by leaders does not make reaction to Parks case less surprising. It also does not show abrupt change in anyone's behavior. That case does not disprove neither "surprising events" nor "behaviors and outcomes rarely change".

Re: A Few Rules

#85

Post by larrik »

epidemian wrote: post #50
larrik wrote: post #49

> Median family income adjusted for inflation was $29,000 in 1955. In 1965 it was $42,000. Today it’s just over $62,000. We think of the 1950s and 1960s as the golden age of middle-class prosperity. But the median household today has roughly twice the income as the median family of 1955. I mean, sure, but I'm pretty sure the median household income today is from 2 working adults, where 1955 and 1965 are a single work…

I agree with you, but i dind't see the text you're quoting on the article. Was the article changed?

I....don't know!
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