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Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

nature.com

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Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#81

Post by king_panic »

hourislate wrote: post #61
mmhsieh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while on fasts, you get an energy level and mental clarity that has to be felt to be believed. everyone should try it at least once.

I have fasted 100 lbs away over the last 2 years. I adhere to an 18/6 time delay eating schedule but have done 2-3 day fasts with 1 refeed meal for a month at a time. I've also done countless 5-7 day fasts. I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. There were many months where I could count the number of times I ate on one hand. My last go was every other day with just one meal on my eating days. I did tha…

You don't follow Cole if you don't know the difference between the effects of dry fasting and wet fasting after 5-7 days. If you do know that, you are purposely making a misleading statement to support your argument.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#82

Post by projektfu »

Yizahi wrote: post #60

I'm not doubting the results (yet), but I just can't understand how is this possible. Chemotherapy basically damages host cells, with a lot of collateral damage. It already can cause all sorts of digestive tract problems and weight loss among other things. And now they propose to cut energy intake even more. How is this beneficial I can't understand.

The idea, as far as I understand it, is that fasting makes cells more quiescent and less likely to undergo mitosis. But cancer cells cannot respond the same way and continue dividing, causing more specific uptake of chemo drugs that damage cells during mitosis. Fewer bystanders get damaged.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#83

Post by roystonvassey »

zhynn wrote: post #77
Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

I always find it funny that fasting comes up so often, but a ctrl-f almost never turns up someone mentioning Ramadan. Nearly 25% of the world population fasts for an entire month, but it's almost invisible to the western world. While I don't agree with all of the details of the fast (I drink water), I think it is an admirable holiday, it's way healthier for the world than Christmas or Thanksgiving.

Yes. Like the GP mentioned, fasting is a ritualistic practiced in many cultures.

In India, for example, there are fasting days in a month and many have certain days of the week even where they fast.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#84

Post by projektfu »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #46

Correct me if I'm missing something, but this isn't the type of fasting most people in the thread are talking about. In the study they say "FMD" or "Fasting mimicking diet", in particular, Xentigen (ProLon?), which is sold by L-Nutra. These are "healthy plant-based meals". [0] [0] https://l-nutra.com/pages/prolon-nutritional-information

At approximately 200 calories per day for 3 days.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#85

Post by roystonvassey »

me_me_me wrote: post #79
hourislate wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have fasted 100 lbs away over the last 2 years. I adhere to an 18/6 time delay eating schedule but have done 2-3 day fasts with 1 refeed meal for a month at a time. I've also done countless 5-7 day fasts. I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. There were many months where I could count the number of times I ate on one hand. My last go was every other day with just one meal on my eating days. I did tha…

> I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. This is dangerous and please don't encourage others to do only water fast. Pure water fast is dangerous beyond 4 days or so. You need to supplement minerals while on per-longed fast. Salt, magnesium and potassium are vital to regulatory processes in your body. When your body uses up all reserves it will not be able to sustain those processes. It is serious busine…

Interesting. Any studies that validate the first point? I recall research talking about how there’s little muscle wastage until day 21 in normal healthy adults.

Keen to know if we have learned more in this space

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#86

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

feralimal wrote: post #63
0-_-0 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm reading this correctly, the "harm from chemo" to the person was about the same, but the "harm from chemo" to the cancer was much more significant in the fasting group.

Yes. But there are alternative healing ideas that fasting and juicing in themselves can cure cancer.

Wouldn't that be relatively easy to find evidence for? We could look at the change in cancer of Muslim communities during Ramadan?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#87

Post by koevet »

zhynn wrote: post #77
Cro_on wrote: post #10

If there were ever a panacea, it would be fasting. The more tight and widespread the research becomes, the more that we prove what humanity has known anecdotally throughout civilisation. From being a Roman cure for epileptic seizures, through the integral practice in most religions, and to the 21st century where we start to prove that it increases both healthspan and lifespan. I find it quite interesting that somethi…

I always find it funny that fasting comes up so often, but a ctrl-f almost never turns up someone mentioning Ramadan. Nearly 25% of the world population fasts for an entire month, but it's almost invisible to the western world. While I don't agree with all of the details of the fast (I drink water), I think it is an admirable holiday, it's way healthier for the world than Christmas or Thanksgiving.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for two years and did Ramadan, out of not wanting to offend my Saudi colleagues who were fasting.

As a practictioner of fasting, I don't think that "modern" Ramadan has much to do with fasting anymore - at least, in the way I see fasting working for me. Reason being that at the end of each day of fasting, there is a very large amount of food being consumed, and I mean a lot. Fasting is about calorie restriction for sustained amount of time - modern Ramadan (based on the experience I had in Saudi, which is a very conservative country) is not really about restricting calories, but just shifting the time of the day in which A LOT of calories are ingested.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#88

Post by brodouevencode »

teraku wrote: post #76
markus92 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that is far outside my expertise. The study here used a diet that is supposed to mimick the effects of fasting by having a low calorie/protein diet. In the discussion, they say the effects on a growth factor can be measured in blood plasma after 48 hours of fasting, or 48 hours of this diet. My layman guess is that the best schedule is probably the one you can adhere to.

If it's a low protein diet, couldn't the lack of certain aminoacids which promotes cell growth (and by that, also cancer growth) also aid slowing cancer? Layman here, just popped into my mind.

Don't cancer cells also require massive amounts of glucose to survive?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#89

Post by Cro_on »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #58
Cro_on wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i like to persuade people by having them imagine an isolated tiger who hasn't eaten anything in a week. by force of nature their sense of smell, hearing, etc. must all be heightened so as to ensure their survival.

But that's because they are incredibly hungry and food focused, at that point they don't care about taking part in other activities and just want food. That tiger would definitely not be the sort I'd care to be around.

understandably! it will no longer be thinking: human animal, could be dangerous..

but a tiger has evolved to be an apex predator, and not much else.

our predatory speciality is more about leverage than brute force, or scavenging rather than hunting. so i think the logic still applies that cognition can be improved in a way that is beneficial to modern humans. resourcefulness implying that resources are found / conjured when they appeared to be lacking?

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#90

Post by feralimal »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #86
feralimal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But there are alternative healing ideas that fasting and juicing in themselves can cure cancer.

Wouldn't that be relatively easy to find evidence for? We could look at the change in cancer of Muslim communities during Ramadan?

Well, there are lots of types of fasting. Juice or water or nothing. Skipping a meal, or not eating solid foods for 3 months. IMO not eating during the day but then eating a lot at night might not be the best type of fast.

But even so, it would be interesting to see numbers anyway.

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