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Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

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Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does climate change lead to a world war? I can understand that there will be many climate refugees, but refugees don’t form armies that can stand up to a standing Western army. I’ve always understood the biggest threat to be mass displacement and starvation, leading to closed off borders, and poverty and death in severely impacted countries like Bangladesh. But world war? Not so sure. The world powers wil…

> For every city abandoned by floods, inland cities will swell in population and prestige That will be poor consolation for the inhabitants of the flooded cities. Also, a lot of infrastructure (think docks and roads) is located on the coasts, often associated with the cities. This will be very expensive to replace in a carbon neutral way, especially as the sea levels continue to rise.

I understand it is not ideal, but that’s a huge jump to “world war”.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#82

While we are at it, can we change some vocabulary used for sensitising climate change from ' For the planet ' to ' Your children will die soon, your grandchildren sooner '?

I'm stunned how even when I agree with other people about climate breakdown happening, they think "Miami flooding" and I think "my kids dying horribly in a resource war or food riot". Though people seem to be finally understanding that sea level rise is a minor concern all things considered.

> and I think "my kids dying horribly in a resource war or food riot".

I still think "I'll believe it when I see it". Scientists are very good at making apocalyptic predictions based on theoretical worst case scenarios, but reality just never seems to match said predictions. In reality, stuff happens more slowly on much longer timescales.

Just look at covid - back in March, the predictions were pretty dire - it was predicted millions were going to die in the US alone... 6 months later it turned out it wasn't nearly as deadly as we thought and a lot of measures we took (like SIP, shutting down economy, etc.) probably caused more harm than good.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree "for the planet" is terrible messaging (namely, the planet's been through worse and will be just fine), I also think your proposed change is bullshit. Your children will and their children will be fine, but there's big and real chance that they will not have the standard of life you have and certainly far below what they could have. I think that's plenty scary in its own.

>Your children will and their children will be fine What about the children who died in the fires now in USA, in Australia, Floods in India and elsewhere all of which have been worse than ever in this century and the reason being attributed to climate change?

The question is "what's at stake with climate change", not about what happens to invididuals (because everything happens to individuals).

What's at stake isn't the death of the planet, or the death of life, or the death of civilization. All these things are resilient enough to adapt to the effects of climate change.

What isn't resilient enough is our quality of life, which is based on my assumptions that climate change will invalidate. The next generation will thus have to spend their surplus resources dealing with these adaptations, instead of leveraging themselves up into higher and better lives.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#84
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stunned how even when I agree with other people about climate breakdown happening, they think "Miami flooding" and I think "my kids dying horribly in a resource war or food riot". Though people seem to be finally understanding that sea level rise is a minor concern all things considered.

> and I think "my kids dying horribly in a resource war or food riot". I still think "I'll believe it when I see it". Scientists are very good at making apocalyptic predictions based on theoretical worst case scenarios, but reality just never seems to match said predictions. In reality, stuff happens more slowly on much longer timescales. Just look at covid - back in March, the predictions were pretty dire - it was p…

I'm highly skeptical of your claims, nearly 200,000 people have died of covid, despite having shutdown the country. You've presented no information to suggest that the scientific consensus that millions would likely have died without the measures we went through is false.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#85
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what happens after a decade of people using rhetoric like there's a war on? You get an actual war.

I agree. It's what really concerns me about slogan's like "language is violence". How many steps removed are we from someone then rationalizing that it's acceptable to respond to "violent language" with actual, physical violence? "Silence is violence" takes it even further and could justify rounding up, "reeducating", and ultimately killing people who didn't say anything in support of a moral cause. Discourses do mat…

It'll be interesting to see if postmodernism dooms us or if another (or previous) philosophy becomes popular to rid us of it.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly it, it's the "boy crying wolf" issue and everyone will just shrug. I found them starting to give "regular" storms already overly dramatic, or that they have started to hand out "yellow", "orange" weather alerts. Those are just not actionable for me as an average regular citizen. Mind you they probably mean that measures are being put in place for others though.

I fully agree with that, but I think it's a manifestation of a far wider trend that might be far more worrying. In this age of information overload, where the struggle for people's attention has become nothing short of warfare, I see both advocacy groups and commercial entities ever so further seek to dramatise their message, just to "maximize their reach" and not get drowned out in the sea of other sensationalized/p…

It's essentially the tragedy of the commons, with the commons being the audience's attention and stress level.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I strongly suspect this is more motivated by weather news marketing and ad revenue strategy than an altruistic desire to "raise awareness".

There is a practical use for the names. It isn't all marketing. Internally, a hurricane starts as a little swirl on the other side of the ocean and is watched/tracked as an interesting object. Designators are used to track these structures. They are given formal names at a particular point once they hit certain milestones. This naming triggers certain processes (more attention, greater tracking fidelity, inclusion in…

>> This naming triggers certain processes (more attention, greater tracking fidelity, inclusion in daily briefs etc).

Right, but you mention the key thing places like The Weather Channel want - increased attention via daily briefs. The public doesn't need that, TWC does.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#88
post #73
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be down for preventing the accompanying world war, but I’m neutral about displacing billions. Maybe I’m just a naturally-nomadic person, but I don’t see anything too wrong with governments making ultra-long-term plans to negotiate a rewrite of all global geographical borders by “sliding” the definitions of all existing countries further away from the equator and toward the poles, abandoning existing cities “inlan…

> “sliding” the definitions of all existing countries further away from the equator and toward the poles There is absolutely no way I can think of in which this could be done diplomatically. In the recent refugee crisis [1] a few million people moving in almost caused the EU to collapse. It's mindbogglingly naive to imagine that hundreds of millions of people from the most affected areas will just be able to resettle…

> recent refugee crisis

This and that are very different things.

A refugee crisis involves people from country A becoming forcefully intermingled with people from country B: moving into their cities, sharing their resources, voting in their elections, etc.

What I’m talking about here, is effectively a series of land purchases made by every country from its bordering neighbours — like the Louisiana Purchase, or the Gadsden Purchase. But where the assumption is that only the land is acquired — while the people residing on the land before the purchase, are expected to have resettled (and been provided assistance to resettle by their own government) so that by the time of the purchase, the land is uninhabited, free for resettlement by the acquirer.

These people aren’t “resettling in northern countries” — the northern country is now just north-er than it was before. The people affected would be resettling in newly-developed cities within newly-purchased territory of their own country, to get away territory that was of their own country but has now been lost/sold.

(For much of human history, people were very used to packing up and moving away from contested borders. We’re actually rather good at it, as a species.)

Or, nearest the equator, people would be moving to get away from territory that just can’t be lived in by anyone, anymore. Such territory would be declared unlivable by global treaty, and the people there would thus be considered refugees of whatever country claims the area, similar to disaster victims. Countries whose whole territory became unlivable would indeed become stateless refugees, in need of an offer of refugee citizenship by some other country. But there’s rather few of those, as most people give up on non-arable land long before it becomes that bad. (See: the thing most https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius regions have in common.)

To be clear, that last bit is not a political argument. That’s a fact. Those people are climactic refugees — disaster victims. They already have a refugee’s need to live somewhere. We’re just currently ignoring their plight, because it’s only affecting these few people who have so little. That could change, if the same problems begin to affect large swathes of the world.

> most people don’t actually want to leave their homes ... it would be a lot be there to not have a need for mass migrations in the first place

I mean, obviously. I just think it wouldn’t be all that bad a thing for humanity as a whole if it did happen; not that anyone would choose to do it.

If every human were chased around by their own personal (de-fanged, de-clawed) tiger for an hour every day, we’d all be in much better shape. That doesn’t mean anyone would sign up for it. It’d be better to not have the tigers, obviously! It just means it’s not necessarily a disaster for humanity if that comes to pass.

Re: Advocates want to name heatwaves like hurricanes to raise awareness of dangers

#90
I think this is a better idea than naming winter storms, the comparison we seem to have settled on.

The first criterion is coherence: a hurricane has a (somewhat) well-defined magnitude while frontal systems have different intensity in different places, highly subject to geography. A heat wave is more well-defined than a front but less than a hurricane.

However, the more important thing to know is that extreme heat is already the deadliest form of weather event in the United States and will likely get worse in the coming years. Being able to put a name to the phenomenon that killed your grandmother has a powerful psychological effect. See:

https://weather.com/safety/news/2019-09-17-top-cause-weather...

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