Firebug • Hacker News Board

Re: Firebug

#81

Post by dang » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #63

derefr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what you're describing doesn't work for me, because the way I write CSS involves heavy reuse of classes and using CSS-Zen-Garden-esque element selectors. I try to "move around an element" in the panel? The whole layout breaks. The approach that makes the CSS inspector functional as a tool for modifying layout, is a completely different paradigm from the one I'm used to. To be clear, I'm a backend engineer; in…

>I try to "move around an element" in the panel? The whole layout breaks. Just more evidence you are doing it really wrong. But, whatever makes you happy, I guess.

Please don't post like this. We're trying for something a bit better here (which is in the interest of everyone participating here).

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Firebug

#82

Post by dan_hawkins » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #74

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

copy implies being of equivalent quality, I seem to remember Firebug being significantly better, although maybe I didn't use the absolutely first version.

It definitely wasn't, it lacked a lot of features of IE Dev toolbar, as far as I remember. Took a few years before it was better, MS let the Dev toolbar drift for a while, and Firebug overtook it. They also didn't promote the toolbar much, which meant a lot of people thought firebug was a revolutionary idea. I seem to remember, and could be wrong as it's a long time ago now, that IE Dev Toolbar's JavaScript support w…

Of course it wasn't as IE Dev toolbar was so much worse than Firebug. For example all unhandled exceptions from event handlers would show up in IE Dev toolbar as originated at row 0, column 0 and helpfully showing you the beginning of a JS script. I've wasted _days_ finding out bugs using that wretched tool.

Re: Firebug

#83

Post by leptons » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:43 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #81

leptons wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I try to "move around an element" in the panel? The whole layout breaks. Just more evidence you are doing it really wrong. But, whatever makes you happy, I guess.

Please don't post like this. We're trying for something a bit better here (which is in the interest of everyone participating here). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry but when someone describes what they are doing is wrong, maybe they need to hear that. I don't really care about being nice at all costs, because the truth sometimes hurts. If they change one little thing and the entire layout breaks, that says quite a lot about the situation, and that together with their insistence to do everything like they did 20 years ago just adds up to someone needing to hear the truth. They are doing things very wrong. And this also isn't the place to delve deeply into the root of their problems, as they obviously are not really interested in learning or changing - so if you're offended by the truth, well that's not really my problem.

Re: Firebug

#84

Post by dang » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #83

dang wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post like this. We're trying for something a bit better here (which is in the interest of everyone participating here). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry but when someone describes what they are doing is wrong, maybe they need to hear that. I don't really care about being nice at all costs, because the truth sometimes hurts. If they change one little thing and the entire layout breaks, that says quite a lot about the situation, and that together with their insistence to do everything like they did 20 years ago just adds up to someone needing to hear the truth. T…

Your comment didn't contain any information. It was just mean. When you do that, you make HN a nastier place.

These effects are always greater than the person adding the poison imagines they are—and worse, they compound over time. That path leads to the destruction of the forum as the most desirable users gradually get disillusioned and leave, and the proportion of nastiness grows among those who remain. The idea of HN has always been to try to stave that outcome off for as long as we can:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

"Someone needs to hear the truth" is not an argument that carries much water because (1) it's what every internet asshole says, and (2) if you present the truth in a nasty way, you actually discredit the truth by giving neutral readers a reason to reject it (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). In the future, if you have some truth to share, doing so respectfully will help protect the forum and will get the information across to more people.