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Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

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81–90 of 288 posts

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#81
post #75

The circumstances of Britain's original forced takeover and colonization of Hong Kong in the Opium Wars are the greater evil to me. Righting that wrong after so long was always going to be painful. By analogy: a violent drug-dealer shoots you, robs you, and then kidnaps your child at gunpoint. Years later, you manage to have the child returned, but in the interim they have been taught by their captor to hate you and…

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Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#82
post #75

The circumstances of Britain's original forced takeover and colonization of Hong Kong in the Opium Wars are the greater evil to me. Righting that wrong after so long was always going to be painful. By analogy: a violent drug-dealer shoots you, robs you, and then kidnaps your child at gunpoint. Years later, you manage to have the child returned, but in the interim they have been taught by their captor to hate you and…

What part of that was left unaddressed in 1997?

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#83
post #54

What has happened to Hong Kong is a strong canary-in-the-coal-mine indicator for other Chinese territorial disputes [i]. With Hong Kong it was somewhat inevitable but I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. I suspect in a decade from now the West will be lamenting how Hong Kong was the right opportunity to stifle China's ambi…

The best predictor for future behavior is past behavior: China is testing the waters, in some cases in a quite literal sense (South China Sea), and you're correct that how the world reacts to Hong Kong and the Xinjiang "re-education camps" will be seen as a vital piece of information in the future when deciding on how to proceed with other "problematic" regions: for example Taiwan, which in the case where strong-armi…

I want to say that defence treaties, are a bit special in the context of USA.

Why USA has historically entered into so many treaties?

They reason is is because USA's constitutional arrangement makes it really hard for the US government to declare a war... on the paper.

So, by giving a treaty, USA was giving the strongest assurance that by turning a treaty into its own law, it prevents the chance of anybody in the constitutional order of precedence stopping, or reneging on the obligated retaliation.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#84

From a simpletons perspective, I don't understand why we get to have a say of how a country reclaims its former territory. Especially from Westerners(not even land connected) who have no claim whatsoever. Why do we have a negative outlook on our former empires colonizing the world while at the same time doing everything possible to retain profits/power from these bad things we shouldn't be doing? Very hypocritical to…

It was done sooner than agreed upon date and lead massive protests on the scale that the world has never seen. Better half of 2019 was HK protests signalling China that the people of HK do not want assimilation.

China struck HK 2 months ago with the new law at the weakest point in recent history with the pandemic.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#85

Does anyone here have an informed opinion on what will happen to Taiwan?

It is unknown what will happen to Taiwan.

It will depend on the overall relationship between US/China, and between China/Taiwan.

If Taiwan declares independence or develops nuclear weapons, expect war within a year.

If the status quo continues, then peace is likely to continue.

China will probably acquire the capability to militarily invade in 2025-2030 even with US intervention.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War happens and is almost continually necessary to keep abusive and hurtful groups at bay. Go fight somewhere else when necessary/appropriate, or the the fight will come to you eventually. These are broad brush strokes, I know, but the principle holds true across the centuries.

Not an easy decision to make, when nuclear weapon exists. And that "somewhere else" --- wherever that is --- is someone's home. Please don't say it as if it's a duel in the wilderness.

Not if it’s a military base, or a navy in the ocean.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#87
post #71
post #8

I've been boycotting Chinese goods whenever possible (it helps that I don't really buy electronics) because of Hong Kong. I regret not having started back when our professor urged us to do so roughly a decade ago. One time, we had officials from Chinese universities visit ours and he made sure to have big "free Tibet" patches on his jacket and backpack while always hanging around said officials. He was quite the char…

Free Tibet to go back to feudalism? You do know that Tibet and Taiwan wasn't any better for the poorer part of the people. Hong Kong is one of the most expensive places to live. The protesters are part of the privileged and are just fighting to keep them. Didn't hear them complaining back then in the asian banking crisis when China bailed them out with the money from exploited chinese workers.

> Didn't hear them complaining back then in the asian banking crisis when China bailed them out with the money from exploited chinese workers

China “bailing out” Hong Kong is a common myth popularized by the CCP [0].

China refused to interfere with Hong Kong during the 1998 financial crisis, according to former Chief Executive Tung Chee-hwa [1].

The Monetary Authority head did not acknowledge any help from China back then [2].

[0] https://medium.com/@lineposthk/%E5%AF%92%E6%9F%8F-%E4%B8%AD%... (in Chinese)

[1] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2101761...

[2] https://hk.finance.yahoo.com/news/%E4%BB%BB%E5%BF%97%E5%89%9... (in Chinese)

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#88

From a simpletons perspective, I don't understand why we get to have a say of how a country reclaims its former territory. Especially from Westerners(not even land connected) who have no claim whatsoever. Why do we have a negative outlook on our former empires colonizing the world while at the same time doing everything possible to retain profits/power from these bad things we shouldn't be doing? Very hypocritical to…

The key word there is former. We don't get a "say", there is an equal opportunity for influence because it is the former territory.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#89
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is a lot harder to sell since the Korea and Viet Nam wars. Not that I disagree with you. China does need to be reigned in, and we should have started years ago. But the leadership of the USA was mostly of draftable age during the Viet Nam war, or, like me, did their grade school homework in front of the TV news with Walter Cronkite reading the daily body count.

Nobody in their right mind is arguing for a land based invasion of China, so this argument is completely moving the goal posts. It's not either-or, there are many ways to pressure a nation without military intervention.

True, but this is the ancient rhetoric almost word-for-word. The words are triggering for those of certain generations.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#90
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War doesn't care what you want. It's already starting. For example, look at the China/India conflict

That's a slap fight over bits of ice and rock compared to a real WW2/WW3 style war.

Franz Ferdinand says hi.
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