Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#81

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:03 AM UTC

philiplu wrote: post #75

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you remember what happened to the replacement the night before Clinton was inaugurated?

I assume you’re referring to the night they left the plug out? Or did something else happen during the Inaugaral Day windstorm in 1993? For non-locals: Seattle is separated from the Eastside, the suburbs to the East, by Lake Washington. That lake is deep enough that the two bridges crossing it float on giant pontoons. In the early 90s, they were replacing the old Interstate 90 bridge, and doing some work on the old s…

I am, and I appreciate the correction to my dates. I really have it etched in my mind that the bridge sinking (you could see it from my home at the time, in Leschi) was tightly coupled to election stuff.

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#82

Post by floatingatoll » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:33 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #44

theklub wrote: post #4

Reminded me of this one, deadly seemly little river in the UK... https://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/11/bolton-strid-stream-th... .

it's great to hear about these kinds of hidden dangers (immortalized by a wordsworth poem no less), but based on what's stated in the article, the sign shown in one of the photos seems to make the mistake of exhorting without informing (and persuading): > "danger. this pool is very dangerous. submerged rocks. diving, jumping & swimming prohibited." it seems it should say something more like "danger. hidden, swift und…

Is that a cultural difference, such that the UK tone for "proceed and you may die" takes for granted (with, presumably, support from their legal system) that the reader is at fault if they ignore the phrasing used? The US is particularly vulnerable to lawsuits seeking vengeance, and spends a lot of time agonizing over phrasing that is defensible against both literate and illiterate people. So it could be possible that the phrasing is correct for the UK, but not for the US. I'm not sure, though!

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#83

Post by TwoBit » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #7

It might be more honest and less surprising for the title to read: "Offshore path through tidal flats has killed 100+ people" I also recall another similar place in France where the path has small artificial posts/concrete piers built so that anyone caught out can climb to safety.

Your proposed title isn't click-baity enough.

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#84

Post by xenadu02 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:07 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #25

By the way, I wonder if there is something about liability in English law that enables this to continue to stay open and posted as a path? I would imagine that in the US, liability would quickly force local government / whoever to take down the signposts, as they "entice" people to think there is a safe, established path and should risk their lives and are probably somewhat liable for the result. I guess there aren't…

Natural features of the land do not, in general, create liability.

Besides which states can't be sued except where their own laws allow it. Lawsuits over riptides on beaches or falling off the edge of mountains are not successful.

There has also been a crackdown by state legislatures over high-risk activity suits and injury during commission of a crime suits. In most states you can't sue the slopes/resort for breaking your leg while skiing, nor can a burglar sue a property owner for any reason whatsoever (because the injury occurred during the commission of a felony).

AFAIK the federal government also doesn't permit lawsuits over injuries in national parks or other such wilderness areas - not that you're likely to succeed. You knew or should have known hiking on the edge of the Grand Canyon is a high risk activity.

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#85

Post by FeepingCreature » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #77

nradov wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death is not probable. A lot of people swim and surf there. The majority survive.

exactly, the sign's information is incomplete, so it's likely completely disregarded due to contrary social proof rather than through reasonable assessment. rip currents apparently kill less than 100 people per year in the US (mostly weaker swimmers who panic).

I vaguely remember the advice being to swim sideways until you're out of the current. Is that valid?

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#86

Post by nradov » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:24 AM UTC

FeepingCreature wrote: post #85

clairity wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, the sign's information is incomplete, so it's likely completely disregarded due to contrary social proof rather than through reasonable assessment. rip currents apparently kill less than 100 people per year in the US (mostly weaker swimmers who panic).

I vaguely remember the advice being to swim sideways until you're out of the current. Is that valid?

That depends. In some cases it's best to swim parallel to the shore. In other cases it's best to just tread water and let the current circulate you back to the beach.

https://www.usla.org/page/ripcurrents

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#87

Post by rriepe » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:56 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #68

clairity wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, that's better, but in that case, it's about possible death (how possible?), rather than probable death, so it's (intentionally?) ambiguous. it seems to lack information about when rip currents are most likely, and more to the point, the statistical likelihood of death from entering the water at all. i'm personally not a strong swimmer so would avoid it anyways, but that information might more readily dissuade ot…

Death is not probable. A lot of people swim and surf there. The majority survive.

It's the deadliest beach in the state.

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#88

Post by bpodgursky » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 6:01 AM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #82

clairity wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's great to hear about these kinds of hidden dangers (immortalized by a wordsworth poem no less), but based on what's stated in the article, the sign shown in one of the photos seems to make the mistake of exhorting without informing (and persuading): > "danger. this pool is very dangerous. submerged rocks. diving, jumping & swimming prohibited." it seems it should say something more like "danger. hidden, swift und…

Is that a cultural difference, such that the UK tone for "proceed and you may die" takes for granted (with, presumably, support from their legal system) that the reader is at fault if they ignore the phrasing used? The US is particularly vulnerable to lawsuits seeking vengeance, and spends a lot of time agonizing over phrasing that is defensible against both literate and illiterate people. So it could be possible tha…

It's human nature to (1) distrust authority, (2) assume that authority is generally more nannying and risk-averse than you yourself are, and (3) want explanations consistent with your understanding of how the world works.

I don't think it's just an American thing.

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#89

Post by dijit » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 6:09 AM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #66

chrisacky wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious too and found this Reddit write-up: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/6zr2d6... Picture of the bridge. (I'm EU so couldn't view the previous link) https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/5ticw5/til_a_dange...

Oh now that is a very stupid design. Thanks for the picture!

Yet, it was replicated in Copenhagen (albeit for a bicycle path).

https://www.archdaily.com/868904/copenhagens-latest-piece-of...

Re: Desolate English path has killed more than 100 people (2017)

#90

Post by rurban » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

FeepingCreature wrote: post #85

clairity wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, the sign's information is incomplete, so it's likely completely disregarded due to contrary social proof rather than through reasonable assessment. rip currents apparently kill less than 100 people per year in the US (mostly weaker swimmers who panic).

I vaguely remember the advice being to swim sideways until you're out of the current. Is that valid?

Best is to turn on your head and understand the rip. In most cases the rip is very narrow, like 2-5 meters. For an experienced surfer the rip is an extremely good thing, it's a free lift to bring you out to the surf. But inexperienced swimmers panick and try to fight the rip. You cannot fight the elevator, you just have to step out of it. And some rips make turns. You really can predict how the the rip flows by observing the coastline, the wind direction and the waves coming in. When I was surf instructor the most important thing was to explain how this works.