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YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

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Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#81

Post by smoe »

johnny_reilly wrote: post #4

Fascinating to see how heavily Ruby and Python feature. The things that surprised me by their absence and near absence were languages I love: JS and C# That said, this is taking now well established startups that will have begun their lives 5+ years ago in general. If I was picking a back end stack then I'd probably hesitate before picking the .NET Framework. But these days I'd easily pick .NET Core. Likewise, I'd wa…

I think this is because, in the 2000s, when a lot of these companies were founded, Ruby and Python hit an pretty much empty sweetspot for web application development in between quickly thrown together scripts and the super heavy enterprisey frameworks.

But since then, that space has gotten a lot more crowded from all sides. There is now a pretty big selection of mature technology to pick from depending on your needs.

In the case of Python, it got also a massive boost from its popularity in datascience. Couple of years ago I thought Python web development is dying out slowly, but seems to have swung back quite a bit.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#82

Post by throw1234651234 »

brainless wrote: post #17
johnny_reilly wrote: post #4

Fascinating to see how heavily Ruby and Python feature. The things that surprised me by their absence and near absence were languages I love: JS and C# That said, this is taking now well established startups that will have begun their lives 5+ years ago in general. If I was picking a back end stack then I'd probably hesitate before picking the .NET Framework. But these days I'd easily pick .NET Core. Likewise, I'd wa…

I use Python by choice and the more there is growing need for Natural Language Processing, Machine Learning, Data Mining, the more I can not leave Python. I try Rust, Ruby and others on the side. But Python is just so heavily fortified now that I constantly suggest startups who are going to build non-trivial tech to select Python. Also the whole Linux, deployment, etc. space is filled with Python. Biology, Physics, M…

.NET Core can deploy to Linux now.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/aspnet/core/host-and-deploy...

It's also faster than Node. Significantly faster. I was troubleshooting a connection issue to a db from a .NET Core API so I set up a NodeJS API hitting the same db to isolate it to the connection. After I was done fixing things, I compared the API response speeds for the same thing. .NET Core outperformed Node dramatically just like in benchmarks.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#83

Post by technics256 »

indymike wrote: post #78
johnny_reilly wrote: post #4

Fascinating to see how heavily Ruby and Python feature. The things that surprised me by their absence and near absence were languages I love: JS and C# That said, this is taking now well established startups that will have begun their lives 5+ years ago in general. If I was picking a back end stack then I'd probably hesitate before picking the .NET Framework. But these days I'd easily pick .NET Core. Likewise, I'd wa…

After building two companies with Python, and then one with Javascript, I can see a huge difference. With Python, you get a predictable development velocity. With Javascript, there's lots of unpredictability (this is rapidly improving) because of thrash in the ecosystem. It's hard to overstate the value of predictable timelines and predictable development velocity when building a business.

Curious where in javascript you saw a lot of unpredictability?

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#84

Post by ronanyeah »

maxehmookau wrote: post #65
1ba9115454 wrote: post #64

I know a little about Coinbase. The CEO did the initial MVC with ruby on rails. He was somewhat technical so it was a natural choice. Then they moved forward with ruby for the whole platform, maybe as that's what he understood and what was the alternative back in the day. However for any of these businesses the language of choice if starting today for me would be rust. I really feel you get a much more maintainable c…

> I really feel you get a much more maintainable codebase than a ruby project, As I'm sure you're aware, this is entirely subjective. I really feel the opposite.

Language comparison is not subjective if the person has experience using both. Otherwise it is guessing.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#85

Post by nayaketo »

csmattryder wrote: post #53
donw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft Research certainly does a lot of interesting stuff, but I think the bigger point is inertia -- Microsoft doesn't have any in the startup space. Ruby, and to a large extent Python, started from zero, and gained a ton of traction during the whole Web 2.0 rumble. Microsoft is starting from a negative perception amongst a lot of engineers, and unless they can provide some sort of killer reason to use .NET techn…

> Microsoft is starting from a negative perception amongst a lot of engineers, and unless they can provide some sort of killer reason to use .NET technologies Yeah, as stated above, I used to build on .NET back when WinForms was king. ASP MVC wasn't fun to write, Rails was a blast. If you haven't got C# experience, I can understand the apprehension. History repeats itself and almost definitely MS will get it wrong ag…

> Winforms was king. MVC wasn't fun to write with

Having worked with both, I have exactly opposite feelings about the two platforms. Except speed of development, I have absolutely nothing positive to say about Webforms.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#86

Post by ronanyeah »

1ba9115454 wrote: post #74
btmcnellis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust is a great language, but how do you scale a Rust team? It’s a hard language to learn without a ton of developers out there. I suppose you could hire C/C++ devs, but if you’re just making a fairly standard SAAS Web app, it might be hard to pull those people over. Rust feels like overkill for your typical Web service to me.

There's a tradeoff, a high inital cognitive load for people learning the language vs the long term pay off of less bugs in production. There are plenty of people who have spent time learning rust but haven't had a chance to use it on a production project. I would start looking there.

Yeah I would just find a motivated junior Node.js dev, and commit to training them up for a month or so.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#87

Post by mumblemumble »

I'm curious what's going on with the languages that seem to harm a company's value. Adding PHP or Java to your stack appears, from these data, to be a poison pill for company valuation.

It could just be a statistical fluke, given this sample size and all the selection effects at play, but I still have to wonder.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#88

Post by historyremade »

btmcnellis wrote: post #70
1ba9115454 wrote: post #64

I know a little about Coinbase. The CEO did the initial MVC with ruby on rails. He was somewhat technical so it was a natural choice. Then they moved forward with ruby for the whole platform, maybe as that's what he understood and what was the alternative back in the day. However for any of these businesses the language of choice if starting today for me would be rust. I really feel you get a much more maintainable c…

Rust is a great language, but how do you scale a Rust team? It’s a hard language to learn without a ton of developers out there. I suppose you could hire C/C++ devs, but if you’re just making a fairly standard SAAS Web app, it might be hard to pull those people over. Rust feels like overkill for your typical Web service to me.

Rust is a horrible language with empty promises. All above it has huge hype. Only kids get into Rust.

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#89

Post by praveen9920 »

donw wrote: post #39
praveen9920 wrote: post #20

Ruby certainly seems to have advantage in terms of spinning up a basic working product, which matters more than developing a well engineered solution.

Why does using Ruby or Python preclude having a well-engineered solution?

No. They seem to have web frameworks with which own can develop a working product quickly

Re: YC Software Startups: Value and Initial Programming Language Used

#90

Post by aggieben »

This would be more interesting if YC didn't have a strong inherent bias toward these particular languages. In other words: these are the results because this is what YC picks and filters for, not because of any inherent meaningfulness about choosing these languages, or qualities of the languages.
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