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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#81

Post by mantap »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

Yes the USA commits human rights abuses. But this is a thread about China, and we shouldn't stop criticising China just because the US does something bad too.

PRC does lack proper civil society, and it all started with Mao and his cultural revolution. Compare PRC and Taiwan the difference is night and day in their respective governments' respect for human rights. It has nothing to do with orientalism and everything to do with authoritarianism.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#82

Post by Waterfall »

flohofwoe wrote: post #49
room271 wrote: post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

I think the simplistic sort of thinking that capitalism and human rights are 'inseparable' from each other and can be 'exported' like Coca Cola or Blue Jeans is just a leftover from the Cold War. The reality is much more complicated unfortunately, together with the slowly growing realisation that the USA has quickly lost it's 'role model' status as the leader of the 'Free World' after the Cold War has ended. The West…

The US seems to be stuck in the 1950s, with much of the infrastructure and the attitudes in a similar state of stasis. The US however hasn't lost its role model status, despite embarrassments like Bush (unless your definition is different). The petrodollar is just as powerful as ever, the dollar is the most powerful currency still, and US hedgemony is just as powerful.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#83

Post by rich_sasha »

tompagenet2 wrote: post #55
rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

On this thought, why is the concern about 5G rather than existing mobile networks and existing fixed-line networks (Huawei kit is common in both)? Is something different about 5G or the UK implementation of it?

Just guessing, but maybe Huawei was more niche when the earlier generations were built, so organically participated less in them anyway?

Or maybe the higher density of 5G kit makes the attack cross-section larger somehow?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#84

Post by p49k »

jaekash wrote: post #72
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China puts their own citizens in concentration camps. The usual counterpoint here is the US incarceration rate.

A prison is not a concentration camp, US has a justice system with the right to trial and appeal, and if the people in prison actually committed crimes then I'm not sure what the problem is.

Many people in prison in the US did not commit the crime they were accused of; thanks to wildly inflated sentencing, many people choose a 1-year plea bargain over a 10-15 year roll of the dice.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#85

Post by ardit33 »

throwawaybab323 wrote: post #66
ardit33 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your point is? Every nation does this with their indigenous population. Yet you don't seem to be outraged at the fact native americans are raped and murdered almost everyday in america.

This is the typical Chinese bot I am talking about.... fresh account and your logic doesn't make sense.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#86

Post by jaekash »

throwawaybab323 wrote: post #66
ardit33 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your point is? Every nation does this with their indigenous population. Yet you don't seem to be outraged at the fact native americans are raped and murdered almost everyday in america.

> Every nation does this with their indigenous population.

And it is always wrong.

> Yet you don't seem to be outraged at the fact native americans are raped and murdered almost everyday in america.

Not under sanction of the state, and Non native americans are also raped and murdered almost every day in america. These things are crimes in USA regardless of the victim, where in China the state is sanctioning it and doing it.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#89

Post by lihan »

room271 wrote: post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

I disagree. Reports about China from many western media tend to exaggerate things about China, mostly influenced by western politics, not good at all. Also, western media tend to report selective facts to only show things they want people to hear and see.

The right to life is the first clause of human right, which I see they are violated in many western countries. They refuse to treat the poor and old. Do you hear China criticise? Maybe they are, but for sure western media choose not to report them.

Freedom of speech is a relative term in today’s world. I can say some of the things you shouldn’t say in China are equally not welcomed in many western countries. If you split US, see how many troubles could come to you?

On democracy, I’m not sure what to comment. China has ran 4000 years under one empire system, and it’s just the culture there. Why democratic society is better than the 1 party system? What’s more important is to have the party represent people’s interests. In many democratic countries, each party represents the interests from certain groups, that’s why it’s necessity to have multiple parties perhaps. The downsides to democratic system is also quite obvious. There are countless debate on many small matters which waste tax payer’s money etc.. Also, the democracy can be manipulated, and if it is the case, it’s worse.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#90

Post by dogma1138 »

tompagenet2 wrote: post #55
rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

On this thought, why is the concern about 5G rather than existing mobile networks and existing fixed-line networks (Huawei kit is common in both)? Is something different about 5G or the UK implementation of it?

This is from all UK networks.
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