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H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

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Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#81

Post by jacobriis »

woobar wrote: post #59
jacobriis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1B petitions in computer occupations are predominantly in software development and computer programming. About 30% are for "computer systems analyst" or "computer occupations, other" but I don't really buy most of those petitions aren't actually for devs. All software developers on TN visas (NAFTA/USMCA visas) are officially "computer systems analysts" for example.

Not sure where are you getting 32% from. The table on p. 15 has "Systems Analysis And Programming" at 56% of all petitions. Other computer related occupations are 10.4% https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Ch...

"Systems Analysis And Programming" (62.2%) and "Computer Occupations, Other" (8.4%) are together 70.6% in 2017. That's the approximately the same population as "254k/365k of H1B petitions in 2017 were for computer occupations" which is about ~70%.

So 86% of of "Systems Analysis And Programming" and "Computer Occupations, Other" are "Systems Analysis And Programming".

If you want to assume "Computer Occupations, Other" are not devs, which is not a good assumption in my opinion then fine only 86% are devs.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#82

Post by monoideism »

fzeroracer wrote: post #56
monoideism wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those big tech companies already have international offices. Why wouldn't they have just expanded those offices? Because they still want to hire lots of Americans. They just don't want to pay them market prices. So they bring in H1-Bs to lower wages. If they hired them overseas, there wouldn't be that effect: From the article above: "Research by Daniel Costa, of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, and Howar…

> So they bring in H-1Bs to lower wages Let's say that this was honestly true. H-1Bs have been around for what, 30ish years now? If we assume that the sole purpose of H-1Bs was to lower wages, then we should've seen slow wage growth or wage depression for software engineers. But the reality seems to be the opposite which is that salary growth for H-1B positions seems to be among the highest wages in the country. It s…

There are some convincing studies that suggest otherwise. Combined with the fact that tech CEOs speak openly that salaries are too high, and conspire with each other to lower them, it seems fairly likely this is what's happening.

Specifically, this study, which is convincing to me, but always interested in other ideas. This one is a kind of natural experiment so the data are randomized (because companies are awarded via lottery): https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/h1b.pd...

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#83

Post by huy-nguyen »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #74
baby wrote: post #30

The H-1B system is terrible. I applied twice to it while I was on an internship visa, and ended up not getting through the lottery and had to leave the US. Then had to wait a year and a half to get a greencard in order to come back.

How were you able to get the greencard in that short time frame?

One and a half years is actually typical for someone from a non-backlogged country.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#84

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

anticonformist wrote: post #25
rpiguy wrote: post #12

The H-1B program is terrible and needs to be reformed. It is supposed to temporarily shore up the supply of critically skilled workers that are in demand. While it does this, when the program was envisioned no one imagined H-1B visa holders working here for 10+ years. If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotia…

Reforming the H-1B to do what it was intended to do would mean eliminating 99% of the visas that are granted. It turns out that the entire H-1B program has been a massive scam. It was created and promoted by American Big Tech companies to make them money at the expense of American citizens. It's been a trillion dollar theft from lower and middle class Americans into the hands of the 1%. Without the H-1B in place, the…

Citation needed. In both India & China, H-1B has given millions of talented people a pathway to learn new skills and earn a vastly increased income, and many of them have returned to their home countries to found their own companies and spread the wealth. So while the implementation of the program remains pretty broken, and the jury is out on their net impact to America, from a global POV the visas have definitely been a plus.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#85

Post by kiliantics »

arcticbull wrote: post #42
monoideism wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists have researched that data, and consistently confirmed what the GP asserted: "Research by Daniel Costa, of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, and Howard University political science professor Ron Hira, found that 60% of H-1B workers receive lower-than-average wages for their job and region. Google, Facebook and Apple “take advantage of program rules in order to legally pay many of their H-1B worker…

"60% of H-1B workers receive lower-than-average wages for their job and region." As opposed to 50% of the normal workforce which receives lower-than-average wages by definition? Feels like that number, while significant, was framed to be sensational. I'm curious how much of this is attributable to: 1. Technical skill level. Are they new grads or junior folks? Is this skew happening because the senior folks roll off o…

average is a mean, not a median

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#86

Post by Clubber »

ardit33 wrote: post #76
arcticbull wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotiating power for salary to zero... It really doesn't do that. To be fair, H-1Bs are supposed to be in-demand specialty workers, to meet the spirit of the program. That means they have, by definition, negotiating power. I've spent a lot of time in H-1 status and I have…

This is so wrong, it is comical. You have a lot less leverage, especially if you want/are in the process of getting a green card. As a former H1B holder (and currently on a Green Card), being on a H-1B has prevented me: 1. Not accepting a higher salary offer, but going with a more 'safe option' 2. Having to negotiate for asap Green Card application, vs. salary 3. Not being able to accept a promotion to a manager, as…

Not to be pedantic, but the term is indentured servitude, at least in regards to Europeans coming to North America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#87

Post by jacobriis »

ma2rten wrote: post #58
jacobriis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1B petitions in computer occupations are predominantly in software development and computer programming. About 30% are for "computer systems analyst" or "computer occupations, other" but I don't really buy most of those petitions aren't actually for devs. All software developers on TN visas (NAFTA/USMCA visas) are officially "computer systems analysts" for example.

I believe that some (almost all?) are Software Engineers on TN visa are Engineers.

In an informational bulletin, USCIS also stated that “Engineers may not fill computer-related jobs under TN classification unless they have credentials as computer or software engineers from institutions that recognize computer or software engineering as bona fide engineering specialties offering full engineering credentials, such as professional engineering licenses.” USCIS Employment Bulletin: NAFTA (2005).

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#88

Post by bitbckt »

frostburg wrote: post #63
29athrowaway wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H-1B1 is not the visa type for the best and brightest. That visa type is EB-1. H-1B is about skills in high demand not extraordinary ability. Many personal friends of mine are H-1B and they would not be even considered the best or brightest in their own household. Of course, you have to be somewhat smart to meet the basic requirements: bachelor's degree or equivalent. But that does not mean you are among the best .

I have a friend with an EB-1 visa. She's good ("alien of exceptional ability") at her job I suppose, which is being a porn actress. Somewhat hilariously it was rather easy for her to meet the criteria (international prizes, being highly paid compared to peers, commercial success, being published in media etc.).

More anecdata:

I’ve worked with a handful of EB-1 holders. I wouldn’t qualify a single one as “exceptional.” Fine coworkers, sure, but to a one the justification for EB-1 strained credulity.

I have however worked with several H1-B holders of whom I would say the opposite.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#89

Post by james305 »

moultano wrote: post #46
monoideism wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those big tech companies already have international offices. Why wouldn't they have just expanded those offices? Because they still want to hire lots of Americans. They just don't want to pay them market prices. So they bring in H1-Bs to lower wages. If they hired them overseas, there wouldn't be that effect: From the article above: "Research by Daniel Costa, of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, and Howar…

The H1B program is the only reason the US has a tech industry at all. 75% of silicon valley tech workers are immigrants.

This is a ridiculous statement. Intel, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple were all founded by US Citizens.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#90

Post by hanniabu »

paxys wrote: post #54
vikramkr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know how many have h1bs, but not how many of them are actually in the US. Which is just amazing. We need to bend over and let them take our privacy away so they can fight the terrorists apparently, but the same government doesnt even keep track of how many h1b holders are in the country? If the data of who every citizen is calling on their phones is so important for national security- how is it not worth the gov…

They definitely have all the data they need, verifiable many times over. No one wants to do the work to talk to all the different agencies involved to compile it.

It's unbelievable how much inefficiencies are created from this. I presume it's on purpose to make oversight more difficult.
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