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On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

nytimes.com

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Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#81

Post by davidw »

calambrac wrote: post #68
davidw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I don't think I've ever been so offended by something on this site. Your implication that I haven't thought about the future of my daughter is... something I hope you never say to any other parent. We've done our best to think about the future, but it's unknowable.

Oh, come on. His question was obviously in response to your statements about what happens to your careers, not about whether or not you had thought about your daughter's future. It's not like the career question is unforeseeable. Many people put off having kids due to that exact issue. You can be offended all you like, but if you really didn't have a solid answer to that question before you had your child, I do think…

If you put off having kids until things are 'perfect', you may never have any. Even then, something might go wrong - say a serious, chronic illness, a company tanks at the wrong moment, or any number of other completely unforeseeable events. We've thought long and hard about any number of things, but there are simply too many variables. And I think it's extremely presumptuous and unfriendly to go casting aspersions about someone you don't know on a site like this that aims to have a strong, friendly community.

Hopefully he just dashed off a quick response without really thinking about it.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#82

Post by davidw »

greyman wrote: post #75
davidw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent of a 2 month old, it's a difficult question we're facing right now. Who? How? When? Should my wife, with a doctorate in biochemistry, abandon her career completely and stay home? Should I? I'm not enthusiastic about those options. Should we hire someone? Not wild about that either. I think the best would be to kind of try and switch off, but it's going to require a lot of flexibility, and perhaps earnin…

Hi davidw, Here in Slovakia, the most common way to solve it is that mother will stay at home for two or three years (it is also called "mother's vacation"), and then resume her career. I think that in most cases, this is the most sane option. Some mothers would stay at home for 6 years - but even in this scenario, it doesn't mean the abandonment of the career, does it? Can't she return to work after a few years and…

> I believe the first years of a child are most magical for the parents to watch...and those moments will not return: if your wife will miss them by being in the workplace, they just will be missed forever. So take care and enjoy being with your kid as often as you can afford!

Austria, where we are now, is similar, and we've both taken several months "off" (or as much 'off' as I can force myself to do:-) to spend time getting used to the new situation, and enjoying her. It's difficult to say that it should be entirely the woman's responsibility though, especially as my wife is also quite talented in her field, and taking something like three years off might put her permanently behind the curve.

Without a doubt, though, we both firmly believe in spending as much time as possible with her!

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#83

Post by andreyf »

ph0rque wrote: post #56
mynameishere wrote: post #41

Parents who had been paying $1,425 a month for infant care would see their costs rise to nearly $2,500 "$1,425" was the subsidized price? If someone told me day care cost that much, I'd fall on the floor, but that's the good price. A woman where I work pays 30 dollars a day, and that's far, far too much. Unbelievable waste. Absolutely unbelievable. $1,425 is more than my total monthly expenses. I could theoretically…

Unfortunately, this industry isn't very scaleable: how many children should one overseer watch, and still provide quality childcare? 2-7, IMHO, depending on the age of the children...

> Unfortunately, this industry isn't very scaleable

Clearly, you haven't seen my latest web-app...

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#84

Post by soundsop »

gruseom wrote: post #32
cpr wrote: post #18

I know one shouldn't question orthodoxy, but it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers. What's the point of having them if you're not raising them?

it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers It surprises me how rarely this gets said. It seems kind of obvious to me. In Canada a few years ago one party announced billions of funding for government-run daycare centers, while the other party (who won in the end) wanted to give the money as tax credits to parents. Seemed like a no-brainer to me, but I recall qui…

Seemed like a no-brainer to me, but I recall quite a controversy about how the latter proposal was "anti child care".

The controversy was that the latter proposal was anti public child care. The rival proposals were pushing in different directions the economics of the decision of staying home with children vs. working and putting them in daycare.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#85

Post by soundsop »

cpr wrote: post #18

I know one shouldn't question orthodoxy, but it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers. What's the point of having them if you're not raising them?

it seems insane to me to have children and then dump them all day, from a young age, with strangers

I agree with you when it is an entire family of mother/father, grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc. raising children. But I can see how a mother (or father) alone at home all day with children may not be able to provide the same environment as a day care with several adults and many other children.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#86

Post by davidw »

timr wrote: post #60
davidw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously, you don't have to answer him in detail I don't mind talking about my own job situation, but don't really feel comfortable talking about my wife's. To keep it brief, my wife and I could live in any number of countries and both of us could find jobs in most of them. With choice comes a lot of thinking and a great weight of responsibility. Live in Italy, make less money, and have the grandparents nearby to…

Ah...that's a more difficult problem than your original post made it seem. I can see how you'd be upset by the response, since you know the details of the situation. For what it's worth, I don't think he was questioning your commitment to your children, so much as the forethought you put into the process. He just didn't do it in a diplomatic way.

Being someone who probably overthinks some things in my life, I tend to equate "not thinking about" with "not placing much importance on something". However, being something of a complex system, between family, work, society, and other factors, it's just impossible to calculate, even though we have clear, if rough ideas about what we'd like, and how we think things ought to be.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#87

Post by utnick »

ph0rque wrote: post #56
mynameishere wrote: post #41

Parents who had been paying $1,425 a month for infant care would see their costs rise to nearly $2,500 "$1,425" was the subsidized price? If someone told me day care cost that much, I'd fall on the floor, but that's the good price. A woman where I work pays 30 dollars a day, and that's far, far too much. Unbelievable waste. Absolutely unbelievable. $1,425 is more than my total monthly expenses. I could theoretically…

Unfortunately, this industry isn't very scaleable: how many children should one overseer watch, and still provide quality childcare? 2-7, IMHO, depending on the age of the children...

sounds like a good job for robot nannys

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#88

Post by gruseom »

lurkage wrote: post #69
xlnt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't argue with that, or ask for an answer of that type, or say that davidw did anything wrong other than misread lisper's post. I thought the waterfall development link basically answered the question about advanced planning. I'm mostly interested in the emotional fragility of parents and wanted to see what would happen if I pointed out that logic does not back up his reaction.

"I'm mostly interested in the emotional fragility of parents and wanted to see what would happen if I pointed out that logic does not back up his reaction." = trolling

xlnt isn't a troll. He just operates within a zone of disembodied rationality so robotic as to make Spock look like Oprah.

Can I have my DH rating now? :)

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#89

Post by davidw »

hugh wrote: post #52
gaius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider any school. They have teachers, sure. And they have caterers, and cleaners, and contractors to maintain the infrastructure... There are a lot more people involved than just the direct service providers.

Caterers: preparing food for ten children isn't a big job, all they need is sandwiches and drink boxes which can be prepared in advance and taken out of the fridge. Cleaners: It's only a room, it only needs to be cleaned once a day. Shouldn't be that expensive either. Contractors to maintain the infrastructure: again, it's only a room, maintenance really shouldn't be that difficult. It's obvious that there's a lot of…

> Caterers: preparing food for ten children isn't a big job, all they need is sandwiches and drink boxes which can be prepared in advance and taken out of the fridge.

You would horrify many parents in Italy with that statement:-) Truth be told, I don't think I can blame them, even if they do get a bit fixated at times. Their kids are healthier and don't have obesity problems because they start off eating right.

Re: On Day Care, Google Makes a Rare Fumble

#90

Post by gaius »

hugh wrote: post #52
gaius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider any school. They have teachers, sure. And they have caterers, and cleaners, and contractors to maintain the infrastructure... There are a lot more people involved than just the direct service providers.

Caterers: preparing food for ten children isn't a big job, all they need is sandwiches and drink boxes which can be prepared in advance and taken out of the fridge. Cleaners: It's only a room, it only needs to be cleaned once a day. Shouldn't be that expensive either. Contractors to maintain the infrastructure: again, it's only a room, maintenance really shouldn't be that difficult. It's obvious that there's a lot of…

Read the article - Google's daycare has fancy organic food.
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