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There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

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Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#81

Post by hvidgaard »

rsynnott wrote: post #66
switch007 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C Your washing machine is likely defective. Nothing about the rules makes this particularly difficult and modern machines with good energy ratings can do it (though, mind you, you'll notice if you read the small print that the energy rating is pretty much just for the mode they expect people to use; the 90 degree mode will use quite a lot of power). > vacuum c…

Miele is not what it used to be unfortunately. There was a technician somewhere on here or Reddit that elaborated quite a bit on it. His general advice was that for now, Bocsh makes some decent machines that last longer than average and is serviceable.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#82

Post by nolok »

stinos wrote: post #80
nolok wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C I will be honest with you this one I just don't understand. My washing machine is A+ in EU norms and it heats properly. Maybe you bought a not so good model ? If anything those norms should be re-evaluated with new tougher levels now, you have to go out of your way to buy something that's not at least A (which is good and it means it worked, but also that it…

Again, if you buy a Dyson that follows EU norms it still works great. Bit off topic perhaps, but in my experience: Dyson does not necesarily work great nor handles well nor does last particularly long. Ok this is only anecdotal from my experience and 2 friends (Animal pro models or similar) but still.. Main complaint: it's overengineered/designed to the point it degrades usability. The handle is about twice the weigh…

I'll be entirely honest with you I used that name because it's the only one I know of a main brand worldwide. I myself use a French brand. Maybe my exemple wasn't very good, sorry for that.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#83

Post by sokoloff »

rowanG077 wrote: post #35
moksly wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but everyone in my circle of friends who bought a fairphone2 (2015) has replaced it. Meanwhile my mom is still using my old iPhone 5s (2013). And my wife uses her iPhone SE(2016). Hell the fact that they have released one in 2013, 2015 and 2019, kind of goes against their message doesn’t it?

That doesn't surprise me. The crowd of people who are aware of the fairphone are most likely techies. And I would wager techies are much more likely to replace a Phone then the Generic Apple user.

I know a lot of consumers who upgrade their phone whenever their cell phone financing plan lets them do so.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#84

Post by sokoloff »

saiya-jin wrote: post #20
princekolt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every android phone in that page has a score lower or equal to all the iPhones. This has to be a joke, right? Example: Galaxy S20 Ultra [3/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... iPhone 11 Pro Max [6/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/1... But sure, lets keep bashing Apple because that gives us all the internet kudos, am I right?

That's a fine example of whataboutism. Look, others are doing the same bad thing, what's your problem?

It seems very reasonable to look at direct competitors when considering whether a company is making good engineering or marketing choices.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#85

Post by cesarb »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #58
bzzzt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About the soldering part: memory prices don't plummet as hard as in 2005 anymore, so when you need more RAM, just buy it. By soldering it you also make it more robust. Most DIMM troubleshooting begins with 'reseat the modules'. And users won't place cheap modules which will cause issues and give your products a bad name.

Of course, you can select a 16 GB memory upgrade from Apple for 400 $ when you buy your laptop. On the other hand, a user-serviceable laptop would just enable you to buy that RAM yourself for around 100 $ and put it in the laptop. Also, you could do that after you buy the laptop, as sometimes people just realize they need more RAM or storage after using a laptop for several years. With an Apple laptop you're just out…

> Also, you could do that after you buy the laptop, as sometimes people just realize they need more RAM or storage after using a laptop for several years.

An example of that: when I started working at my current company, the 4GB of RAM I had on my several years old laptop was no longer enough (I could work fine, but it got annoyingly slow when I used the IDE). Since said laptop is a Dell, I just bought a matched pair of 8GB RAM sticks (dual channel, total 16GB), followed the instructions on the repair manual (available as a PDF on the manufacturer website, no login required) to open the back cover, and exchanged the memory. Took me only around an hour, and would have taken only a few minutes if I hadn't insisted on running the full memory test to make sure the new sticks were good (built-in hardware test program, launched from the BIOS, no installation or operating system required).

I some time later used that 4GB stick I had removed from the laptop to upgrade another computer from 4GB to 8GB. That is: even the part I had to remove for the upgrade wasn't wasted.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#86

Post by sokoloff »

mywacaday wrote: post #32
yangminded wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand how much easier it is to repair an iPhone compared to any other phone on the market (apart of niche products like the Fairphone which does a great job!). If you open an iPhone, you will see a very well ordered and packaged arrangement of components. Most Android phones are a hot mess compared with it. If you need a component for an iPhone, you can get it easily. What I'm saying is not tha…

You might be able to get apple to repair it at an exorbitant cost relative to the price of the part. Apple dies not provide spare parts to third party repair shops. If you can't repair an item for a reasonable cost regardless of how easy it is it's still not repairable.

I’ve had iPhones in our family since the 4 and have never had difficulty finding whatever parts I needed (several batteries and 1 screen). Most malls have a kiosk where iPhones are repairable if you don’t want to DIY.

While I wish by-Apple repairs were cheaper, I also wish car repairs were cheaper at the dealer.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#87

Post by fsflover »

asutekku wrote: post #64
fsflover wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BTW: iPhones regularly get software updates for around 5 years. How's that for extending the lifetime of devices? Android phones are lucky to get significant software updates for more than one year. After Android devices stop getting updates, you can continue with alternative OS or you can use F-Droid basically forever. All your apps will have updates. When Apple devices stop being supported, they turn into bricks.

When apple device stops being supported, it’s just not getting any more updates. It’s not going to get bricked, you can keep using the phone until foreseeable future. Also, the general consumer does not care if you can flash a rom from xda. They care about the official updates.

> When apple device stops being supported, it’s just not getting any more updates

If effectively means it is absolutely unsafe to use anymore. Security bugs are found in browsers all the time.

>Also, the general consumer does not care if you can flash a rom from xda. They care about the official updates.

At least there is an option. Also this is exactly why I mentioned F-Droid, which is just an app.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#88

Post by Mirioron »

michaelt wrote: post #63
nolok wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C I will be honest with you this one I just don't understand. My washing machine is A+ in EU norms and it heats properly. Maybe you bought a not so good model ? If anything those norms should be re-evaluated with new tougher levels now, you have to go out of your way to buy something that's not at least A (which is good and it means it worked, but also that it…

> Maybe you bought a not so good model? Rinse quality is lower in modern washing machines in order to meet water economy standards - even if you buy an £800 Miele and turn on all the 'extra rinse' options. I know this because I have a relative with sensitive skin, who resorts to rinsing things by hand after taking them out of the washing machine - and doing such a rinse visibly dirties the water. Feel free to test th…

So, we can't even buy a washing machine that actually cleans the clothes? I'm not looking forward to the future.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#89

Post by Mirioron »

rsynnott wrote: post #66
switch007 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C Your washing machine is likely defective. Nothing about the rules makes this particularly difficult and modern machines with good energy ratings can do it (though, mind you, you'll notice if you read the small print that the energy rating is pretty much just for the mode they expect people to use; the 90 degree mode will use quite a lot of power). > vacuum c…

The cheap machines before might've been less efficient, but they generally at least did the job adequately. That's not always the case when the power rating is limited.

Consider that these rules apply to countries with very different economies. People in Bulgaria have an average income of $9,000 a year compared to $54,000 in Germany. They have access to the same vacuum cleaners and washing machines, but they can't afford the same ones.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#90

Post by cesarb »

fsflover wrote: post #87
asutekku wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When apple device stops being supported, it’s just not getting any more updates. It’s not going to get bricked, you can keep using the phone until foreseeable future. Also, the general consumer does not care if you can flash a rom from xda. They care about the official updates.

> When apple device stops being supported, it’s just not getting any more updates If effectively means it is absolutely unsafe to use anymore. Security bugs are found in browsers all the time. >Also, the general consumer does not care if you can flash a rom from xda. They care about the official updates. At least there is an option. Also this is exactly why I mentioned F-Droid, which is just an app.

> If effectively means it is absolutely unsafe to use anymore. Security bugs are found in browsers all the time.

Aren't the base operating system and the browsers (installed through an app store of some kind) separate? Even if the phone's operating system is not receiving any more updates, there will still be updates to the browser for a while. For instance, a quick search tells me Firefox is still being updated for Android 4.1, an operating system which is long out of support.

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