for crate in $(ls */Cargo.toml | xargs dirname); do cargo build Why do this instead of cargo --workspace build Is it so you can time the individual crates?
Yep!
3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
81–90 of 211 posts
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#82Aside from the Rust aspect (which is cool!), I can't believe we've come this far and still don't have low-latency video conferencing. Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but people talking over each other and the lack of conversational flow drives me crazy with things like hangouts.
The biggest problem is that of the video codecs which ultimately boils down to using interframe compression. This technique requires that a certain # of video frames be received and buffered before a final image can be produced. This requirement imposes a baseline amount of latency that can never be overcome by any means. It is a hard trade-off in information theory. Something to consider is that there are alternativ…
I think a larger issue is the focus on video as opposed to audio. Audio may be less sexy but it is far and away more important for most interpersonal communication (I'm not discussing gaming or streaming or whatever, but teleconferencing). Most of us don't care that much if we get super crisp, uninterrupted views of our colleagues or clients, but audio problems really impede discussion.
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cisco "telepresence" solved this 15 years ago. Standardized rooms on both sides with high quality cameras and low latencies. Polycom had a similar but worse setup at the time. The Cisco experience was very close to being in a shared meeting with the other people. It made meetings across continents work very well and was an actual competitor to flying everywhere. Between the hardware being too expensive and the link r…
Cisco and HP Halo were incredible but the biggest problem they had was 1) the requirement to build out an actual room for it and 2) the shitty software setup experience. The big corporates that could afford to build out real estate for VCs also bogged the shit down in "enterpriseyness" that made the shit impossible to use.
I worked at a company that had a Cisco telepresence machine on wheels. You had to make sure it was plugged into a certain color Ethernet wall jack for it to work but every room had one. You could reserve it and then wheel it to the conference room you wanted.
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#84The bottleneck is not on the CPU. I'm afraid this company may have wasted their time trying to reinvent WebRTC. If you really want to get realtime video, I think the best approach is a custom codec on CUDA or better yet custom hardware (FPGA). You can only go so far on general purpose hardware before you hit a wall and get Zoom/WebEx quality.
Can you recommend some resources for the current state of the art for low latency video? Somebody else in the comments posted https://github.com/CESNET/UltraGrid/wiki, but I’m curious to learn more.
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#85Aside from the Rust aspect (which is cool!), I can't believe we've come this far and still don't have low-latency video conferencing. Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but people talking over each other and the lack of conversational flow drives me crazy with things like hangouts.
Well, all the effort is regularly defeated by poor hardware - you can have 40ms latecy in the video call stack, but when people attach Bluetooth headphones which buffer everything for 300ms there's nothing really to be done.
(Be gentle on your coworkers and use cabled headphones.)
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cisco and HP Halo were incredible but the biggest problem they had was 1) the requirement to build out an actual room for it and 2) the shitty software setup experience. The big corporates that could afford to build out real estate for VCs also bogged the shit down in "enterpriseyness" that made the shit impossible to use.
I worked at a company that had a Cisco telepresence machine on wheels. You had to make sure it was plugged into a certain color Ethernet wall jack for it to work but every room had one. You could reserve it and then wheel it to the conference room you wanted.
That's nothing like a Cisco telepresence room. You have to have used one to understand. It's nothing too sci-fi -- not floor to ceiling curved displays or whatnot -- but just the multiple large TVs all in a curved setup on the other side of a curved table makes a huge difference.
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#87Nitpick: “audiophile-quality sound” it seems, is becoming the new “military-grade encryption.” I don’t have many other comments to make other than I am surprised rust-analyzer was only mentioned in passing.
To me, "military grade encryption" means following industry standard. "Audiophile quality" means higher quality than you need, care about, or can even tell apart from lower quality.
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#88Aside from the Rust aspect (which is cool!), I can't believe we've come this far and still don't have low-latency video conferencing. Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but people talking over each other and the lack of conversational flow drives me crazy with things like hangouts.
If I had to guess at a possible future, I can imagine edge computing servers that connect over 5G or fiber to your device. On these edge computing servers, they predict using AI/ML what you, as a participant, could do (video including facial and hand gestures, audio including Toastmaster type fillers like ahh, umm) in the next 50-60ms or longer and transmit their guess using rendered video frames and audio in time for the other videoconferencing participants to see “no latency” interaction. Done right, it would seem real. Done wrong, definite Max Max Head Headroom feel.
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#89for crate in $(ls */Cargo.toml | xargs dirname); do cargo build Why do this instead of cargo --workspace build Is it so you can time the individual crates?
Yeah it looks like they wanted to know how long each crate took to build individually.
But as long as we're nitpicking, nobody should just pipe `ls` into `xargs` like this, since it fails if anything has spaces in it.
Instead, do:
for cargo_toml in */Cargo.toml; do
crate="$(dirname "${cargo_toml}")"
pushd $crate
# ...
done
Re: 3K, 60fps, 130ms: achieving it with Rust
#90Aside from the Rust aspect (which is cool!), I can't believe we've come this far and still don't have low-latency video conferencing. Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but people talking over each other and the lack of conversational flow drives me crazy with things like hangouts.
The biggest problem is that of the video codecs which ultimately boils down to using interframe compression. This technique requires that a certain # of video frames be received and buffered before a final image can be produced. This requirement imposes a baseline amount of latency that can never be overcome by any means. It is a hard trade-off in information theory. Something to consider is that there are alternativ…
Interframes are not a problem, as long as they only reference previous frames, not future ones.
I was able to get latency down to 50ms, streaming to a browser using MPEG1[1]. The latency is mostly the result of 1 frame (16ms) delay for a screen capture on the sender + 2-3 frames of latency to get through the OS stack to the screen at the receiving end. En- and decoding was about ~5ms. Plus of course the network latency, but I only tested this on a local wifi, so it didn't add much.
[1] https://phoboslab.org/log/2015/07/play-gta-v-in-your-browser...