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Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#81

Post by mantap »

secondcoming wrote: post #75
ncmncm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normal people don't want to touch C++ anymore. Only people that think that CVEs are "just fault of bad developers" (LOL) can still be considering C++ a good language to start new projects in. Deliberately inflammatory, and also false. 1. Rust has limited abstraction features to make it more approachable and implementable, but make it unable to express libraries that are easy in C++. This will not change soon, altho…

I've been writing C++ professionally for 16 years. I'm doing it right now in fact, but snuck on to HN while a build is underway. OP is right, unfortunately. C++ is a dying language. Mozilla, Microsoft and Google are all looking at Rust. Why? Because it's probably makes more sense to rewrite a buggy C++ component in Rust instead of updating it to use modern C++ (where admittedly, you have to go out of your way to get…

C++ was a dying language in the 2000s. But they turned it around with C++11. Now it has iterative 3 yearly updates and it's getting pretty good.

It's far too premature to declare its death. The pace of development of C++ is decently fast and there's many stakeholders with millions of lines of C++ who are interested in C++ not dying. C++ is taught in universities around the world so the chance of C++ developers becoming expensive is low.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#83

Post by Rochus »

ncmncm wrote: post #55
dpc_pw wrote: post #28

Personally, at some point Rust was just clearly better and after a while - I lost interest in D. I don't have time to keep track of D catching up, when I'm so happy with Rust, and ecosystem is growing so fast. Maybe D got much better in last few years... but I kind of don't care anymore. It's hard enough to introduce a raising star like Rust to your coworkers and D just don't have traction anymore. I've been followin…

> Normal people don't want to touch C++ anymore. Only people that think that CVEs are "just fault of bad developers" (LOL) can still be considering C++ a good language to start new projects in. Deliberately inflammatory, and also false. 1. Rust has limited abstraction features to make it more approachable and implementable, but make it unable to express libraries that are easy in C++. This will not change soon, altho…

Thank you for putting it so aptly.

Unfortunately for many people technology is still an emotional rather than a professional topic.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#84

Post by danielscrubs »

dpc_pw wrote: post #28

Personally, at some point Rust was just clearly better and after a while - I lost interest in D. I don't have time to keep track of D catching up, when I'm so happy with Rust, and ecosystem is growing so fast. Maybe D got much better in last few years... but I kind of don't care anymore. It's hard enough to introduce a raising star like Rust to your coworkers and D just don't have traction anymore. I've been followin…

Are you saying AAA-game/kernel/embedded developers are not normal? Pretty uncalled for if you ask me.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#85

Post by danielscrubs »

blub wrote: post #71
mrfusion wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m currently trying to get into robotics. But why does everyone want c++? Surely robots can be programmed in other languages.

Because the real world doesn't really match the expectations and statements of the HN community. It's really rare that I see here anything pragmatic regarding what programming languages to learn/use. The community lives in a bubble and is out of touch with mainstream software development.

I'd wager we actually have a lot of clever teenagers here at HN. Well-meaning, but has never worked in a team nor has any experience of what the market rewards.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#86

Post by teleforce »

For those you want the context of D please check its development history [1].

If history telling us something, python only take off after 20 years and now D language is around the 20 years mark. But fortunately D has passed the growing pain similar to python 2 to 3 when it transitioned to D2.

Personally I think D just need a big breakthrough in a form of a killer application like Ruby with RoR, and Go with Kubernetes to make it more popular and gets the snow ball rolling. The killer application probably involve some kind of data science or data analytics that is currently more popular now with python. But python seems starting to reach its limits and it will be good if D can take over.

For rust since it came from Mozilla team I'd expect by now Firefox is already re-written in rust by now but it seems yet to happen, and this article probably tell us why [2]. It will be wonderful to have Firefox-rust (if it ever happened) to replace Chrome that keeps eating away my quad core CPU and 16 GB ram laptop memory once opening more than 20 tabs.

[1]http://erdani.com/hopl2020-draft.pdf

[2]https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/02/rewriting-a-browser-compon...

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#87

Post by Rochus »

Scarbutt wrote: post #11

Because there's a movement called "Rewrite everything in Rust"

There will always be a movement "rewrite everything in x". This seems to be a natural manifestation of the generation conflict. Looking at the history of programming languages, it is certainly not wrong to say that any "most loved" language has a good chance to become the most hated language at some point in the future. And so on and so forth.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#88

Post by vijaybritto »

nindalf wrote: post #58
vijaybritto wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have to be updated. Rust has had success in countless places after Firefox/Dropbox. With that being said fast compilation times are amazing and must be a default in new languages. If not they should follow an approach like Dart where there is a VM for development and also a AOT compilation support for producing binaries.

There’s ongoing work for a fast debug back end called Cranelift. It emits code 20-50% faster than LLVM while being less optimised. Explained further here - https://jason-williams.co.uk/a-possible-new-backend-for-rust

Yes, I have read about this. I follow Rust very closely. This is a good trade off while developing for speed.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#89

Post by alexashka »

nix23 wrote: post #70
alexashka wrote: post #10

Because Rust is new and shiny. People who use Rust aren't using it to solve real world problems, they're using it to scratch a novelty itch. D is a tragedy in my opinion. It's an excellent language that just doesn't fit the political needs of any of the big players. We have Swift which is a worse version of C#, we have Go, we have Java. Why don't we have a single language so that we can do cross platform development…

>People who use Rust aren't using it to solve real world problems Like a browser? Or google's fuchsia? Have some fun: https://www.rust-lang.org/production/users You know what WASM is?

I understand that people who use and like Rust would find my comment off-putting but there is no need to be snide.

There are precisely 0 job openings looking for Rust developers in my city, and I live in a city with millions of people.

To me, that's the real world where real people solve real world problems.

To me, when 0 people are hiring for Rust in a city in North America where there are maybe 10 other cities bigger than the one I live in, real problems aren't being solved using this language.

Sorry, that's empirical evidence, not opinion.

I understand that in a few places, people are using Rust and some are even getting paid to do it. I call that scratching the novelty itch - I'm sorry if my use of language offends your sensibilities, we'll have to learn to live with that somehow :)

Re: Ask HN: Why do you use Rust, when D is available?

#90

Post by cultofmetatron »

cy_hauser wrote: post #40
gm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, the person you're replying to never said, nor implied that. I'm not trying to knock you, but your comment reminds me of the type of exchanges where one person says says "men do a lot of work", and the other person replies "are you saying women are lazy?"

> one-off tricks like compiling itself in 5 seconds. I took that as saying D could compile itself in 5 seconds too. I was impressed. Bubble bursted.

I'm pretty sure that was a knock at go
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