Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people • Hacker News Board

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#81

Post by mtippett » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:10 PM UTC

Absolutely, it's a power play and innappropriate.

I worked for a manager that would use "I exited his ass" as a badge of pride. That shows no respect for the person, and it also shows no due diligence and hiring, mentoring or coaching that individual.

We all have our own particular biases in how we measure our own personal success, and as leaders we also apply our biases to how we interpret other's success. As a leader who has control of someone's livelihood, you should ensure a tempered layering of (1) expectations, (2) feedback, (3) understanding, and (4) mutual understanding of fit.

No one should be surprised that they are getting fired or getting on a performance plan. The silent behavior is a tell, but it is ultimately unfair to the employee.

Bad hires do happen, but it's usually pretty clear and pretty mutual when that happens.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#82

Post by Kronen » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:10 PM UTC

This is another example of the trend in the 21st Century, people being so easily offended.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#83

Post by gowld » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #30

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

>In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid. Usually, it's more ignorance rather than (intentional) cruelty. If your office has a relaxed atmosphere, as a manager, it is very easy to make the mistake of thinking that you are just a regular part of the gang. But of course, you're not, and everyone (except you) is aware of your status and the fact that you control their continual employment, bonuses/raise…

> ignorance rather than (intentional) cruelty

Yes, and that ignorance is a _privelege_ of power. Most employees don't think they can risk-free joke about firing their boss.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#84

Post by daenz » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #52

_gfrc wrote: post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

One of the few memories I have of my old job was my grandmanager saying "leaving early today?" As I passed them in the hall at 5pm.

It's such a loaded question because any simple answer implies you acknowledge that 5pm is early. Gross. I hope you told them you value a healthy work life balance and left anyways. If a place fires you for that, you're better off not working there, barring exceptional circumstances.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#85

Post by Hamuko » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #52

_gfrc wrote: post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

One of the few memories I have of my old job was my grandmanager saying "leaving early today?" As I passed them in the hall at 5pm.

I remember the CEO asking me that question.

However, the context was that I was walking towards the parking lot at 14:00. And so was he.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#86

Post by Kronen » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

nojito wrote: post #74

Flip side is also true. Joking about quitting is a terrible thing to do.

Not when you can get a better job in another place

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#87

Post by BMorearty » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #36

Similarly, marriage protip: Don't joke about divorces. Even if you think your partner can handle it. Mine can and we still don't do it, as policy. It's a known policy, too; we mentioned it to each other before (briefly, a long time ago, not as some big event). This is certainly far from "the one key to a happy marriage!", but it's a brick in the house. It generally fits into the larger social IQ element of thinking a…

Absolutely right. In my marriage we never sat down and talked about not joking about divorce, but after 25 years it's evident we both know that's the rule.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#88

Post by alexandercrohde » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

I think a good parallel would be how would you feel as a manager if your employee jokes about quitting to go get more money somewhere else?

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#89

Post by jdhawk » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #70

sudhirj wrote: post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

A US President once gave a speech joking about assassinating the Jonas Brothers with a predator drone to protect his daughter from dating them. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/president-obama-tells-joke-jonas-b... (Not singling out that President, but the incident was shocking.)

....at the White House Correspondent's Association Dinner, which is known for bad jokes?

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#90

Post by groby_b » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #42

kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

Do you have significant amount of control? Maybe I've been lucky to be part of mostly healthy organizations, but even managers have to justify/explain decisions. Either be for termination, compensation adjustment, reassigning to a different team, etc. I always had to document and explain why I thought an employee deserved a raise, or should not get a bonus, etc. Even as a director with ~20 reports I don't have unlimi…

But your people don't see the checks in action. For all they know, you've passed those already.

The main thing is, there is a power differential, and "firing" jokes are, at their core, saying "I have power over you". It's just not that funny. And for new managers who feel compelled to make them, "why does my power make me giddy" is a good introspective question to ask.

No, that doesn't imply they are bad people. New power does things to everybody's mood. But asking the question helps remind yourself. (For an entire framework to keep that impulse in check, servant leadership works pretty well, IME)