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Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

techtudor.blogspot.com

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Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#81

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

rlpb wrote: post #9

> The backend is proprietary. GitHub is proprietary. I understand that some people don't accept that either. But if you accept and use GitHub, then you should have no problem with snaps on this basis. Also, on this topic, consider this quote[1]: "We did that experiment with Launchpad; the people who said they wouldn’t use it because it wasn’t open source were the same people promoting a closed source alternative. Whe…

> But in today's Internet-connected world, refusing updates forever is also anti-social and unacceptable

Can you elaborate?

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#82

Post by dleslie »

pmontra wrote: post #61
bzb4 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What didn’t you like about Debian on the desktop? Old software?

I don't remember exactly, it was 6 years ago. I remember the general feeling of having to do too much work to get a usable desktop. Maybe the settings? Keep in mind that I don't need anything fancy. I liked Gnome 2 and I stayed with Gnome Fallback until last year when there were enough Gnome Shell extensions to bend it to what I like a desktop to be. Maybe Debian is on par now. Old software can be worked around with…

Debian has improved greatly in the last six years.

Try it with the xfce or mate flavours.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#83

Post by dheera »

RealStickman_ wrote: post #40
dheera wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also these "AppImage" files. They launch, but there is no guidance on how to install them to the system. Launching Chrome: I click the Chrome icon. Launching PrusaSlicer: Start a terminal and type chmod 755 ~/Downloads/PrusaSlicer-2.2.0+linux-x64-202003211856.AppImage ~/Downloads/PrusaSlicer-2.2.0+linux-x64-202003211856.AppImage That doesn't seem like progress to me from a UX perspective.

From the limited experience I had with an AppImage I found they usually create a .desktop file to make the program searchable. Though I have to agree that there is no really simple, gui way to install AppImages.

Yeah mine used to in 18.04 and now they don't in 20.04. No release notes about the removal of that feature, no workarounds, nothing. Not that it's a big issue for me to create a .desktop file myself but the apt-get experience is slightly nicer still because everything just works.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#84

Post by dilandau »

gentleman11 wrote: post #52
dilandau wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are parallels with the Gnome team's stance that "we know what's best for you", and that turns off a lot of linux users. There is a tension between those who wish to turn linux into Mac OS or Windows, and those who want fine-grained control over the workings of their computer. The arrogance of the gnome team and the snap apologists is a huge red flag to me. I don't use Ubuntu or Gnome, and I'm glad linux provide…

I find gnome to be pretty configurable. The opinionated defaults aren’t so bad because you can just replace the environment if you dislike it

You literally have to install a special tool to configure the look and feel. Did you miss the whole thing about how gnome devs don't want user themes to be supported? Or how they are forcing csd and dropping menus and config left and right? I'm guessing you weren't a gnome 2 user because it's night and day.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#85

Post by rayiner »

I like Snaps. After the debacle that is Catalina, I built my first Linux desktop in 15 years. Ubuntu 20.4 worked perfectly out of the box, with Wayland and everything. Snaps and the Snap store are a huge improvement over the previous GUI interface to Apt.

I ended up settling on Silverblue, a Fedora derivative that uses an immutable base system along with Flatpak for applications, and it’s been great. Equally trouble free, and Flatpak has many of the benefits of Snaps without some of the downsides (fully open source).

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#86

Post by ashtonkem »

bzb4 wrote: post #31
billme wrote: post #19

Largest issue I have with Snap is that it appears to assume the owner of a system is not in best position to make choices for their own systems. Sure, this might be true for the average user, but it is toxic to the “super user” community that’s in the best position to help support the larger community and may end up pushing them away. Snap at the very least should have an opt-out feature, if not be opt-in during an i…

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

Should? Maybe. Probably will at this rate? Almost certainly.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#87

Post by catalogia »

dilandau wrote: post #84
gentleman11 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find gnome to be pretty configurable. The opinionated defaults aren’t so bad because you can just replace the environment if you dislike it

You literally have to install a special tool to configure the look and feel. Did you miss the whole thing about how gnome devs don't want user themes to be supported? Or how they are forcing csd and dropping menus and config left and right? I'm guessing you weren't a gnome 2 user because it's night and day.

Trying to explain to a non-technical user that GNOME doesn't let them reconfigure something because the GNOME developers think they're an idiot who will be confused by configurability is a nightmare. I ended up telling my dad to install XFCE and he's not looked back since.

The problem isn't that GNOME devs are trying to make user friendly software for non-technical users; that intent is commendable. The problem is the GNOME devs have incredibly insulting opinions about the skills and intelligence of non-technical users.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#88

Post by BiteCode_dev »

billme wrote: post #19

Largest issue I have with Snap is that it appears to assume the owner of a system is not in best position to make choices for their own systems. Sure, this might be true for the average user, but it is toxic to the “super user” community that’s in the best position to help support the larger community and may end up pushing them away. Snap at the very least should have an opt-out feature, if not be opt-in during an i…

There is an opt out feature: diversity.

You can always use only the system package manager, or use a distro that doesn't use snap.

All those complaints feel so moot.

It's really hard to be in FOSS nowaday: you can't make a move without your users judging you all along the way, because a lot of them are idealists that expect a lot from you, yet don't think about the non tech saavy users.

It's way easier to make proprietary software: most of your users don't criticise any single decision you make, you don't have to justify yourself, you get much more users, and you make money out of it.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#89

Post by ashtonkem »

2ion wrote: post #51
FZY0E1RnLM wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Nix or Guix.

No streamlined enterprise support (insurance), no nix or guix, except for running ON established enterprise linux distributions.

That's an organizational limitation, not a technical one.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#90

Post by BiteCode_dev »

znpy wrote: post #29
schmichael wrote: post #25

I think there are some very good critiques of snap (performance, provenance, reproducibility, namespacing, etc), and the first couple points in this article seem reasonable. However I can't agree with this: > apt/deb is a wonderful package management system and everyone is happy with it, at least the majority of Ubuntu/Debian users. Besides, dnf/rpm is also a similar packaging system for Fedora/RH systems and everyon…

Then snaps could be the solution for proprietary software, not for regular software.

Statistically, proprietary software is regular software.

But yeah, snaps is a great solution for that, espacially because getting a non FOSS software is not possible in official distro repos, and hosting your own repo is HARD.

And that's what's happening. I installed Telegram using a snap because of this.

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