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macOS in QEMU in Docker

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Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#81

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

hamandcheese wrote: post #60
qayxc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that I was able to do the exact same thing 20 years ago using VMWare Workstation - download a VHD image with OS and app(s) pre-installed and configured, optionally map to a drive on the host OS and get started instantly... Maybe I'm too old to get the appeal of "a fleet of containers" in place of a single (and potentially throw-away) VM image along with maybe even a vagrant-script to make it easily reproduc…

The difference is tooling, particularly "just works out of the box" tooling.

Yeah, tooling/workflows are the (possibly only) reason that Docker is popular. It's like how the FreeBSD folks will say that they've had containers (jails) long before Linux, which is true but misses the point that without the ability to pull and run images trivially they're losing, badly, on usability.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#82

Post by hinkley »

cercatrova wrote: post #19

I just want a good CI/CD system for macOS to build iOS apps without needing to buy a farm of Mac Minis, or even buy a Mac, is that too much to ask?

My CI/CD pipelines have always been a minmaxed affair of doing the math on how useful a piece of information is and how expensive it is to get.

As such, it's not unusual for the OS X tests to be farther down the list and not to trigger at all if earlier stages failed. It's easier to scale up multiple subprojects if you run the first couple phases on commodity hardware and then ramp up to the more peculiar stuff only if everything else already looks good. That way, your broken build can't slow down my green build very much.

It's not so much that I like doing this, as that it prevents a number of things I most definitely do not like at all.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#85

Post by hinkley »

qayxc wrote: post #20
sjburt wrote: post #16

It's hard to see what Docker is adding here since qemu is being run inside Docker. You could get almost identical functionality out of a bare VM image and not deal with the hassles of docker.

It's a hammer problem. Docker is the new hammer and now everything starts to look like nails.

It's the hammer problem because management and IT have locked up all of the other tools, so you're damned right I'm gonna try to use the hammer.

Spooling up a docker image is low friction at a lot of places. Doing anything else can take an act of Congress.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#86

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

m463 wrote: post #47
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #8

So this is pretty misleading. It's really a full system emulator (qemu) running inside Docker, using root privileges on the container that make the isolation very weak (--privileged). It also uses hardware assisted virtualization (KVM) which is not going to be available most of the time Docker is. You can think of the Docker platform itself as subset of the Linux platform. With many common features removed by default…

I think "docker" is an ambiguous term nowadays. Depending on your point of view, it could denote a container, or source control, or a sort of makefile. To me it is a reproducible recipe in 43 lines of Dockerfile text.

Okay, I know how docker can mean containers, and I agree that Dockerfiles are quite similar to makefiles, but how does docker relate to source control?

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#87

Post by sitkack »

lalos wrote: post #53
GordonS wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been worried about Azure DevOps getting merged into GitHub since Microsoft bought Github, but thankfully I haven't seen any drop in the maintenance of Azure DevOps, not yet anyway. As much as I like Github for OSS projects, I really love Azure DevOps for everything else. The CI/CD capabilities are amazing, and I haven't had any real issues with lack of documentation (a few small things here and there for sure th…

I doubt it, the valuable thing is the GitHub brand but the meat lies on Azure. Most developers still see Microsoft as the old Microsoft of the 90s but they are actively working on that image or brand by acquisitions like Github or NPM. The inverse is most likely where GitHub is just a web endpoint for underlying Azure services.

> old Microsoft of the 90s

Not to jackknife the thread, but most developers were born in the 90s and do not remember this Microsoft.

The engineering and dev managers DO remember this Microsoft. So while I agree somewhat they are trying to repair their image, with the younger crowd they only know MS as Minecraft, VS Code, Azure, Github. More people probably got exposure to Linux via WSL than all of the previous installs combined.

90s me would have thought hell would have frozen over, and now me knows it has.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#88

Post by dang »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #14
tutfbhuf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the title: "A full system emulator (qemu) running inside Docker, using root privileges on the container that make the isolation very weak" would be a bit to long for HN, what do you think?

We are a bunch of pedantic nerds here though. How about "macOS in QEMU in Docker"?

Done! Changed from "macOS in a Docker Container".

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#90

Post by pydry »

sitkack wrote: post #87
lalos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it, the valuable thing is the GitHub brand but the meat lies on Azure. Most developers still see Microsoft as the old Microsoft of the 90s but they are actively working on that image or brand by acquisitions like Github or NPM. The inverse is most likely where GitHub is just a web endpoint for underlying Azure services.

> old Microsoft of the 90s Not to jackknife the thread, but most developers were born in the 90s and do not remember this Microsoft. The engineering and dev managers DO remember this Microsoft. So while I agree somewhat they are trying to repair their image, with the younger crowd they only know MS as Minecraft, VS Code, Azure, Github. More people probably got exposure to Linux via WSL than all of the previous instal…

The only real change I've seen to Microsoft since the 90s is that it finally "embraced" open source in markets it was losing in when the only other alternative was irrelevance.

They're still playing dirty tricks on open source. They're just not stupid enough to use the ones that would do more harm than good.

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