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Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

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Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#81

Post by 51Cards »

Scoundreller wrote: post #73
arcticbull wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really though? I mean, it used to be. Rogers wants $75/mth (CAD - $55 USD) for 10GB data and unlimited talk and text. Let's compare to the US: - AT&T wants 65++ USD ($87 CAD) for a comparable plan. - Verizon wants 70++ USD ($94 CAD) for a comparable plan. - TMo wants 70 (all in) USD ($94 CAD) for a comparable plan. And each network in Canada is dramatically better than AT&T and TMo, and roughly comparable to Ve…

Wat? T-Mobile wants US$35 (incl taxes!) for a much better plan. Includes Netflix even. And they only start throttling at 50gb. https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans The Canadian networks are “better” because every Canadian rations their usage. I’d wager that Canadian networks are wayyyy underprovisioned compared to even the crappiest US network.

I would be curious about the underprovisioned thing... that's very possible. I travel to the US frequently (well before the world turned upside-down) and I would say in 8/10 US cities I visit I experience frustratingly worse cell coverage than I do at home. Slow speeds, call drops, etc. This isn't just on my personal phone but also on all of the cellular devices we bring with us. (we provide equipment for trade-shows, etc. and much of it runs 4G). I hadn't considered network provisioning as a possible cause of this.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#82

Post by mistermann »

adventured wrote: post #16
abledon wrote: post #2

has anyone had to hear their crazy relatives go on about the dangers of 5G? Is there some penultimate youtube video or resource to point people to to assuage their fears?

I spent many hours arguing with a smart friend about this. I was unable to find any argument to get her to stop believing 5G is boiling/damaging/altering people's blood with "high powered energy waves" or similar (the blood clot revelations have only amplified that conspiracy angle). I find a commonality among most conspiracy theory people is vast ignorance of the topic in question and any underlying science. This is…

In my experience you can find plentiful examples of similar behaviour among people in general. Take any culture-war-themed thread here on HN and marvel at the extensive collection of knowledge and facts people have on the subject, often extending well into unknowable regions that require omniscience, mind reading, future gazing, etc.

Human beings seem to be highly intuitive thinkers, but you may not notice it much in environments with low variance in core values and beliefs.

But just so I'm not misunderstood, I don't disagree that conspiracy oriented communities seem to have an unusually high percentage of people who are highly open to new and speculative ideas, and are mostly extremely tolerant of diversity of thought. I don't think it's necessarily as bad as it's made out to be, I think they provide some legitimate value to society, although whether it is net beneficial I'm not entirely sure.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#83

Post by arcticbull »

Scoundreller wrote: post #76
arcticbull wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the coverage maps though. They have 199 towers total and cover a tiny, teeny strip of roadway around the perimeter [1]. On the other hand, Bell [2]. I'll give you one guess which of these networks costs more per capita to operate. [1] https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=274&MNC=1&type=LTE&latitu... [2] https://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Our_network_coverage

Coverage 100x the population across 100x the landmass would cost the same per capita.

That's not taking into account geography, though. The entirety of the coverage in Iceland is along a thin ring of highway that encircles the island, and a big dense infill in Reykjavik. It's not the same at all.

I'd bet pricing would be comparable if Bell's network just extended along the Trans Canada Highway, and in each major city. Even that's not a fair comparison since Iceland is literally encircled, so you never need to drive more than half the length to get between any two points.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#84

Post by DarthGhandi »

humanlion87 wrote: post #49
refurb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People complain about the lack of cell phone providers here in the US, but damn! Canada is way worse. The cost of phone plans is outrageous and the major telecoms do everything in their power to stop new entrants from messing up their gravy train.

I think it's far more difficult to build a competitive network in Canada vs the US. Canada is as big as the US, but has 1/10th the population. Building and maintaining infrastructure for low-density population areas is extremely capital intensive. I am not saying the existing Telco oligopoly is a good or ideal situation. Just mentioning that US and Canada have some differences in this regard

Canadian and US urbanisation rates are essentially identical.

This isn't a case of looking at a map and population count whatsoever. It's an incredibly moot point when you look at where 95% of people live in both countries.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#85

Post by [deleted] »

Scoundreller wrote: post #76
arcticbull wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the coverage maps though. They have 199 towers total and cover a tiny, teeny strip of roadway around the perimeter [1]. On the other hand, Bell [2]. I'll give you one guess which of these networks costs more per capita to operate. [1] https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=274&MNC=1&type=LTE&latitu... [2] https://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Our_network_coverage

Coverage 100x the population across 100x the landmass would cost the same per capita.

[deleted]

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#86

Post by Cyph0n »

Lammy wrote: post #74
Cyph0n wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a viewpoint, it’s a fact. Important difference.

The 'crazies' seem to do an okay job sharing the reality they perceive. Don't limit yourself with a belief that only one viewpoint on a given topic is The One Truth™. A person's sincere belief in something is what that makes that thing true.

I’m not “limiting” myself at all. I simply don’t care enough to waste my time. Arguing with flat earthers gets tiring very quickly.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#87

Post by arcticbull »

51Cards wrote: post #81
Scoundreller wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wat? T-Mobile wants US$35 (incl taxes!) for a much better plan. Includes Netflix even. And they only start throttling at 50gb. https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans The Canadian networks are “better” because every Canadian rations their usage. I’d wager that Canadian networks are wayyyy underprovisioned compared to even the crappiest US network.

I would be curious about the underprovisioned thing... that's very possible. I travel to the US frequently (well before the world turned upside-down) and I would say in 8/10 US cities I visit I experience frustratingly worse cell coverage than I do at home. Slow speeds, call drops, etc. This isn't just on my personal phone but also on all of the cellular devices we bring with us. (we provide equipment for trade-shows…

Parent post has it backwards, the US networks are way underprovisioned, which is why they're just so darn slow -- well, that and Shannon's law. The Canadian networks are at minimum adequately provisioned.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#88

Post by chvid »

In other news; here in Denmark the government has barred Huawei by decree. Also covering Greenland and Faroe Islands. The situation is a bit different here since as there are multiple competing network operators (at least in mainland DK).

Germany's main network operators are also decling Huawei; not by direct government decree though.

So Huawei seems to be loosing 5G contracts all over the western world.

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#89

Post by bgee »

Scoundreller wrote: post #66
bgee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: China national working for the American company behind Android; opinions are my own. > But if Huawei is a Chinese spy Has Huawei been caught with a smoking gun? Is Huawei worse in terms of security compared to other telecom suppliers? If (national) security is really Canada's top priority, it seems the most needed ban is on American consumer products/websites [0]? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_…

> Has Huawei been caught with a smoking gun? If govs knew, they wouldn't publish it to avoid straining already strained relationships. But would do behind-the-scenes work to keep Huawei out of critical infrastructure. Edit: the risk may be theoretical, but we know all equipment can be bugged. Not a terrible decision to be bugged by a close ally. Canada is happy to share data with USA and vice-versa. Perhaps gov shoul…

> If govs knew, they wouldn't publish it to avoid straining already strained relationships. But would do behind-the-scenes work to keep Huawei out of critical infrastructure.

I don't follow; the Western world has put sanctions on China in the past [0], I don't think they would avoid straining their relationships with China in a situation like this.

> Canada is happy to share data with USA and vice-versa.

I don't think sharing is the same as being spied on... Or you mean Canada and America are sharing the information obtained via spying? That would make sense.

[0]: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/opinions/tiananmen-sanctions-...

Re: Bell, Telus to use Nokia and Ericsson, not Huawei, in building their 5G networks

#90

Post by simlevesque »

refurb wrote: post #36
Scoundreller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just goes to show that Canadian telecom policy is controlled by telecoms, not by the government. It's very cozy and regularly functions to discourage competition. Canadian telecom policy still revolves around "facilities-based competition", where it's believed that new entrants should build out a new network. It's designed to fail. Even the incumbents, Bell and Telus, share a 3G/4G mobile network to avoid redundant i…

People complain about the lack of cell phone providers here in the US, but damn! Canada is way worse. The cost of phone plans is outrageous and the major telecoms do everything in their power to stop new entrants from messing up their gravy train.

Depends where you live. I pay 22$ CAD for a nice plan with 2gb, unlimited texts and voicemail. I'm with Fizz.
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