Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does that matter? Advertising is repugnant. It's not my responsibility to support their unprofitable business model.
Right, but what I'm saying is this is the best choice we have right now. You are trying to choose a fantasy choice that does not exist. You current choices are: 1. Let the news die. 2. Pay for the news, suck up the fact that it has advertising. 3. Don't pay for the news and hope the rest of us pay for it so it doesn't die. Your "option 4: news without advertising" does not exist. It may in the future, but only if ENO…
Please Pay for Your News
81–90 of 123 posts
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but what I'm saying is this is the best choice we have right now. You are trying to choose a fantasy choice that does not exist. You current choices are: 1. Let the news die. 2. Pay for the news, suck up the fact that it has advertising. 3. Don't pay for the news and hope the rest of us pay for it so it doesn't die. Your "option 4: news without advertising" does not exist. It may in the future, but only if ENO…
There will be no equilibrium without ads if you are okay with paying even with ads.
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#83I have a lot of thoughts, but in sum I think the article doesn't say much or engage in much soul-searching or really think about the problem in a serious/interesting way. Here are a few of my thoughts: What about a patronage model? The demand for news is universal and the ability for people to pay the price of news they consume (not at all universal) lends itself better to a patronage model where a smaller number ove…
I don't claim to be a media expert or business expert, so all I can do is call out something troubling with a CTA. If you'd like to chat more, email me. "_ @ goel.io"
You named a few business models (patronage, billionaire-good-heart, government grants, ads, subscriptions etc) - all those are valid and if effect. Not a single is perfect. I wish journalism suits were fast to realize the potential of the Internet and to adapt. They screwed up. Doesn't mean we should let the institution die (considering there's no replacement for it).
I think most publications have a mixed revenue stream anyway - private grants, reader donations, monthly memberships, events etc.
> Local papers? If Jeff Bezos took 50% of his growth in net worth this year, he could permanently endow every single local newspaper in the entire country in perpetuity. Does it really matter what I do?
Personally, I think this should happen through taxation. But that's another can of worms that would de-rail this conversation.
Side note: Have you read Winners Take All by Anand Giridharadas? If not, I implore you to. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/14/winners-take-a...
> we know the author can afford is buying, say, 100 subscriptions of a worthy paper and donating them.
I personally have dozens of subscriptions and do donate xx% of my income every year to causes including journalism (through newsmatch and direct). If you'd like the list, email me. If you have ideas for effective matching/giving, ping me. I'd be all ears.
> In fact, the author surely knows dozens of other SSEs at Google who also feel the same way politically about this issue. Why not solicit them?
Yeah the sad thing about my experience with tech coworkers is that there is too much entitlement (read the comments in this thread). "I will only pay if it's on my terms". "I will only pay if I can pay 5 cents." Those are meaningless excuses that miss the big picture - that news is a business that everyone needs. So no, not many feel the way I do. My hope is that posts like these make a few people pay for their news.
> antitrust
Yeah good luck.
> chasing YouTube and Facebook money > ads
If people don't pay, then they will have to look for money elsewhere.
> But I didn't ask publication to pivot to be ad-first, a variety of structural incentives did that.
They didn't pivot. They were always ad-first. Print revenue was 10%, and the other 90% was ads. The suits in news thought that that would work online. They were wrong.
> all the UX problems
Sure. Those are good things to take with the places you like to read. I'd reported issues to crosscut that they have fixed.
> It might well be the case that making a product that's more convenient and less infuriating will solicit more individual compliance
"Journalism" or "news" is not a product. "nytimes.com" is. Apple News app is.
I do wish more places were tech-forward - but to get there, they have to have consistent revenue and trust of the public.
Your complaints are valid (and not novel). None of them mean that news as an institution doesn't deserve your money considering the risks they take and the value they provide. Yeah the paper isn't glossy, or it's too glossy, or it smells like Axe, or the website doesn't let you put widgets -- those are fixable. What isn't is the one-way path we are headed in that leads to no accountability for the powerful.
I don't want us as a society to look back in 10 years and think "well we could have saved news and democracy but they just didn't put enough Javascript on their website".
> Bret Stephens
fuck him.
> I know this is a pretty far-reaching comment, but I think if we're going to have the conversation, let's have it.
Happy to. Email me.
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#84I wish paying for news would actually make news organizations prosper. But subscription only slightly help. Looking at past revenue of the LA times, subscribers accounted for under 20% of revenue [1]. The remaining 80% was from advertising. If we all subscribe to 3 or 4 papers right now, the best thing they can do for their business is bombard us with ads to make up for the remaining percentage. Well, we have adblock…
This is very much a bootstrapping problem. They need money and stability, and public support, to make the investments that would make the public support them.
I think the stakes are high enough for us to bicker about chicken and egg.
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but what I'm saying is this is the best choice we have right now. You are trying to choose a fantasy choice that does not exist. You current choices are: 1. Let the news die. 2. Pay for the news, suck up the fact that it has advertising. 3. Don't pay for the news and hope the rest of us pay for it so it doesn't die. Your "option 4: news without advertising" does not exist. It may in the future, but only if ENO…
I choose option 1 of course. That is objectively the best choice. The news orgs that will survive are the ones that secure arm's length public funding such as NPR, CBC, BBC, et al. If Fox or CNN goes bankrupt nothing of value will be lost.
The local newsroom that do the important work of disseminating disaster information, local election information are what's at stake.
40-some millions US residents still don't have reliable or fast Internet. Millions don't have any Internet at all. How do you expect to keep up with their own community and the world?
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#86Question then: do you never read the news? Because if you do, you are consuming the product. So clearly, you are not against the ads. You just don't want to pay for it (even though the median income on HN is high enough that it would be a rounding error for most).
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious, how do you get your news in a way that lets you bypass the tracking? Why not continue to get your news that way and just subscribe to ensure the news continues to exist?
I mostly get my news through RSS feeds (I have a small Python script that makes use of readability-lxml to convert partial RSS feeds -- the kind that most news websites provide -- into full feeds).
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#88Pay what you want, ad-free, paid reporters and staff, and focused on solutions versus sensationalism.
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#89I've been a fan of the correspondent since they launched: https://thecorrespondent.com/principles Pay what you want, ad-free, paid reporters and staff, and focused on solutions versus sensationalism.
Re: Please Pay for Your News
#90I tried, except, everywhere I looked, they promoted Op-ed pieces with equal billing and authority as traditional investigative reporting. Washington Post, NY times seemed liked the "best" based on track record for investigative reporting on politics and international coverage (with a US focus) but I cancelled both after a year. Open to suggestions... Edit: Also NYTimes cancelation process is AOL levels of hostile. Th…
Why not just ignore the op-eds? Or are you saying you would prefer NO news to news with op-eds?