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YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

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Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#81

Post by DanBC »

DiffEq wrote: post #50
alabaster_punt wrote: post #39

Hardly surprising that a video full of dangerous misinformation has been pulled. It would be worth reading about this particular professor on Wikipedia, particularly his support for alternative medicine, his false claim to have been a professor at Imperial college, and his claim that the UK's NHS is "the last bastion of communism". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karol_Sikora

So what is so dangerous about it? Perhaps you need to consult a dictionary as to what danger really is. I don't know these people that made the video and I don't subscribe to magic crystals or whatever they are pushing/saying but I do know what Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson from Imperial college created in his flawed modeling - a world wide panic. That is what has been dangerous. Google is a private company I suppose…

> but I do know what Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson from Imperial college created in his flawed modeling - a world wide panic.

You don't think the tens of thousands of deaths in Italy, Spain, France, and the US had already caused that panic by the time his model was released?

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#82

Post by Traster »

dhimes wrote: post #57
kerkeslager wrote: post #40

There are two separate issues here: 1. Non-science: calling Karol Sikora a "professor of medicine" hides the fact that he's an oncologist; if he ever had any expertise it was in cancer, not epidemics, and he has no business speaking outside his field. Sikora is also a fellow of The Princes Foundation For Integrated Health and a professional member of the generically-named College Of Medicine. Both of these organizati…

Truth is the answer to lies. I wish this was true. I hope it was true. But I'm losing faith. People have a hard time believing truth if it goes against what they want to believe if the lies can be framed in any plausible way at all. This applies to everything from cults to businesses to abusive spouses to, of course, politics. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky and tired of playing the long game of truth. Part of…

I think one of the dynamics that we need to look at is the formation of cults. Cults are dangerous literally because persuasion is asymmetrical. It's not a matter of "Oh this guy persuaded these people of this stuff, and you just need to set them straight", once someone is in a cult it's close to impossible to pull them out of it.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#83

Post by DanBC »

teslabox wrote: post #37
DanBC wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell broke rank with consensus to share the experience of doctors on the front lines actually treating SARS-CoV-2 patients, by posting a few videos expressing his frustration at the standards his ICU was implementing while treating SARS-CoV-2 [0]. He single handedly changed the COVID-19 standard of care in the United States by objecting to the consensus policy of ventilating fully-coherent people…

> It's not the ventilation that was killing patients. It was the covid-19 that was killing patients. I'm not a professional with years of slinging the lingo. But I think Kyle-Sidell's retweet of "Barotrauma is a real phenomenon" [0] implies [edit] that aggressive ventilation was actually what was killing people. Is it so unreasonable to propose that many of the prematurely-ventilated might have survived, if not for t…

> Is it so unreasonable to propose that many of the prematurely-ventilated might have survived, if not for their ventilation?

Yes, because we've stopped intubating people so early and they're still dying.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#84

Post by kerkeslager »

shrimpx wrote: post #80
kerkeslager wrote: post #40

There are two separate issues here: 1. Non-science: calling Karol Sikora a "professor of medicine" hides the fact that he's an oncologist; if he ever had any expertise it was in cancer, not epidemics, and he has no business speaking outside his field. Sikora is also a fellow of The Princes Foundation For Integrated Health and a professional member of the generically-named College Of Medicine. Both of these organizati…

For (2), allowing conversation as a general solution seems tough at scale, e.g., targeted misinformation campaigns on fb and twitter.

Allowing conversation isn't tough: FB and Twitter would literally have to do less than they do now.

Creating a culture where people are willing to have uncomfortable conversations instead of trying to silence anyone they disagree with is the hard part.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#85

Post by scarface74 »

ppod wrote: post #74
scarface74 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A distributor is a private business that has the right to ban anyone they want except for protected classes. He can be his own distributor that’s the power of the internet.

Of course. As I said, I'm not asking what rights they have. I'm asking what you think. If you were youtube, would you ban this video?

I prefer the way that FB does it. If you share information that is false, they overlay it with a warning saying that the post is probably false and let you click on it and view it.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#86

Post by lbeltrame »

nojito wrote: post #72
kerkeslager wrote: post #40

There are two separate issues here: 1. Non-science: calling Karol Sikora a "professor of medicine" hides the fact that he's an oncologist; if he ever had any expertise it was in cancer, not epidemics, and he has no business speaking outside his field. Sikora is also a fellow of The Princes Foundation For Integrated Health and a professional member of the generically-named College Of Medicine. Both of these organizati…

People are quick to trust doctors but fail to understand that specialists are the important thought leaders. The only opinions that matter are infectious disease and respiratory doctors.

They are people, and they can make mistakes or miss something, like everyone else.

A clear example is an Italian virologist that called the hypothesis of thrombosis in the alveoli that came out from autopsies and the suggestion of using heparin in treatment protocols "a colossal idiocy".

Then other data, including the recent Lancet paper and the Hamburg study came out.

The mere fact one is an expert does not make him or her always right. So weigh opinions more, but don't trust them blindly.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#88

Post by t0ughcritic »

scarface74 wrote: post #32
mchusma wrote: post #5

I don't really care the content at all, but I really wish these platforms took the "phone company" approach, in which they considered themselves neutral carriers of information. In the US, I don't know an obvious issue besides legislative change to enforce this. However, once they consider themselves as "curators" of information with near-monopoly status, I hope they are litigated against successfully.

So should YouTube not be allowed to have any standards about what they want on their platform? Should they be forced to allow porn? YouTube does not have a monopoly on video streaming. There is nothing stopping anyone from paying for the bandwidth and streaming anything they want by renting computer hardware and bandwidth from a colo.

The monopoly is based on current market share not just the technology

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#89

Post by blast »

dhimes wrote: post #57
kerkeslager wrote: post #40

There are two separate issues here: 1. Non-science: calling Karol Sikora a "professor of medicine" hides the fact that he's an oncologist; if he ever had any expertise it was in cancer, not epidemics, and he has no business speaking outside his field. Sikora is also a fellow of The Princes Foundation For Integrated Health and a professional member of the generically-named College Of Medicine. Both of these organizati…

Truth is the answer to lies. I wish this was true. I hope it was true. But I'm losing faith. People have a hard time believing truth if it goes against what they want to believe if the lies can be framed in any plausible way at all. This applies to everything from cults to businesses to abusive spouses to, of course, politics. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky and tired of playing the long game of truth. Part of…

Truth may not be the answer to lies (in any straightforward way), but bureaucratic committees deciding what's true is hella not the answer to lies. This is so obvious that the weird part is smart people acting otherwise. I'm surprised it has happened so easily. It seems that all that is needed are the right labels (words like 'science', 'public health', 'misinformation', and 'disinformation') to generate a high level of conformity. That this is a time of mass fear must be making a difference too.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#90

Post by scarface74 »

t0ughcritic wrote: post #88
scarface74 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should YouTube not be allowed to have any standards about what they want on their platform? Should they be forced to allow porn? YouTube does not have a monopoly on video streaming. There is nothing stopping anyone from paying for the bandwidth and streaming anything they want by renting computer hardware and bandwidth from a colo.

The monopoly is based on current market share not just the technology

The entire idea behind monopoly for legal reasons is that it harms consumers and it takes away choice. How does Youtube dominating stop anyone else from distributing video?

Heck, I can set up a bandwidth adaptive video stream and put it behind a CDN.

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