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Animals killed since opening this page

justone.earth

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Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#81

Post by samatman »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #72
yters wrote: post #52

Is there any upside to industrialized livestock farming? E.g. the enormous number of animals that get to live?

Do you think quality of life matters? Or is mere existence enough? If so, do you think factory farmed animals have a good of quality life?

My conclusion from this argument is that it should lead one to eat: sustainable wild-caught fish, pasture-raised eggs, game meats, beef, sheep, and goat.

Avoid chicken (other domestic fowl are generally ok) and pigs, which can be (and are) tortured their whole lives for profit. There is considerable room for improvement in how veal is raised as part of milk and meat production, but calves which avoid that process and end up as meat get: two good years, a couple not-great months, and one really terrifying and shitty day.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#83

Post by dntbnmpls »

nikivi wrote: post #15

Just wish it was illegal to show smiling chickens on chicken packs. It desensitize people from treating meat as previously living beings. Ideally each animal product comes with the imagery like one you get now on cigarette packs (but of an animal in a cage/slaughterhouse) + appropriate cost increases for welfare. Recent law introduction of putting 1, 2, 3 stars on animal product packages to signify how well animal wa…

> Just wish it was illegal to show smiling chickens on chicken packs. It desensitize people from treating meat as previously living beings.

It should also be illegal for vegans to lie about how a vegan diet is cruelty free. Farming kills far more animals than raising livestock. Far more insects, worms, rodents, etc are killed to protect vegetation and harvest vegetation than are killed in slaughterhouses.

Every bowl of salad has more animal parts than a plate of steak.

Is it more ethical to kill one cow to provide 1000 meals for 1000 people or kill 1000 animals to feed one vegan one meal?

You are right, every meat package and every vegetable, fruit, etc should list how many animals were killed to feed you.

Also, it should show how much environmental damage the vegan diet is causing.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/aug/10/avocado...

Also, every food item should explicitly show that humans are natural omnivores and that the vegan diet in an unnatural diet that humans cannot survive on in nature.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#84

Post by JoeAltmaier »

blahblahblah22 wrote: post #34
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #19

Not too much different from animals that die in nature. Birds: 15 per second is about right.

Well ducks at >90/second and chickens at >1500/sec doesn't quite compare with 15/second. How do you figure 15/second is about right anyway?

An estimate of 1/2 to 1B birds dying per annum. But that was only due to human interaction (freeways etc).

Yeah but chickens - that given number corresponds to 50B per year. But there are more than 65B (though less than 20B at any one time exist).

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#85

Post by uxcolumbo »

samatman wrote: post #81
uxcolumbo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think quality of life matters? Or is mere existence enough? If so, do you think factory farmed animals have a good of quality life?

My conclusion from this argument is that it should lead one to eat: sustainable wild-caught fish, pasture-raised eggs, game meats, beef, sheep, and goat. Avoid chicken (other domestic fowl are generally ok) and pigs, which can be (and are) tortured their whole lives for profit. There is considerable room for improvement in how veal is raised as part of milk and meat production, but calves which avoid that process and…

Would this be scalable? Could we replace factory farming with your suggestion?

Is our ecological footprint important as well when making food choices?

If so, why not listen to the science and try to reduce meat & dairy as much as we can.

"A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. “It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions."

From: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding...

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#86

Post by samatman »

eindiran wrote: post #69
samatman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strikes me as a great way to harden opposition. Meat eaters are going to want the nasty images taken off of packaging, and the cheaper option is to lobby to remove them, not pay substantially more for an idyllic, pasture-raised, humane future. Congratulations, you now have a pro-factory-farming lobbying group with actual grassroots support. Might also have more people on your side; might not. Worth considering the ad…

I don't think this is true. I think many people who eat meat do it because they enjoy it and in most cultures, eating meat is the default thing to do; most don't actually approve of factory farming conditions. If the pictures actually depicted animals in the conditions they were raised (humanely raised meat could depict something more humane than something factory-farmed on the packaging), many people would try to ea…

Consider that taxing factory meat and putting the proceeds into a subsidy of humane meats would accomplish the policy goal without the tedious social shaming.

The problem that faces is that it looks and feels more like an animal-lib play than an animal-welfare one. As you point out, the animal liberationist faction will not stop pushing until there's no meat at the market, and raising and slaughtering your own is as illegal as slavery.

Since I don't want that, I'm obliged to oppose anything that gives them power and influence. A lot of people would implicitly come to the same conclusion.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#87

Post by stanski »

dntbnmpls wrote: post #70
cryptica wrote: post #32

This page doesn't count animals killed by other (non-human) animals. Mother nature is also cruel. I don't think that humans are the biggest animal killers. A single humpback whale likely kills millions of krill every day. One could even argue that eating whale meat is ethical because it saves millions of lives. Also it should be noted that most of these farm animals would never have been alive if humans did not breed…

> This page doesn't count animals killed by other (non-human) animals. Because it's a silly vegan propaganda page by wealthy privileged virtue signaling crowd without any grasp on reality. Countless quadrillions of animals are killed every year in nature. Countless billions of animals are killed every year to clear land and protect vegetation from insects, worms, rodents, etc. Countless billions of animals are killed…

Factory farming big in nature?

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#89

Post by nradov »

blahblahblah22 wrote: post #35
Starkus wrote: post #7

A lot of humans to feed

It's pretty well-established that we (in the West) consume far more protein than we need. We don't need to go vegan but do need to reduce meat consumption.

On the contrary, most people would be healthier if they ate more high quality protein from a diverse range of plant and animal sources. The US RDA is enough to avoid nutritional deficiency but insufficient for optimal health and athletic performance.
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