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Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

videogameschronicle.com

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Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#81

Post by Jasper_ »

wolfram74 wrote: post #34
roblabla wrote: post #28

To be clear, this doesn't just contain the source code of the software. It also contains the Verilog for the N64 GPU and other important hardware component, which is hugely important. From what I gather, it also contains full version history from their VCS. While it is very interesting, it's worth noting that anybody hoping to use this for anything "serious" risks getting the Nintendo lawyers on their ass. Emulators…

It's a bit of shame, too, because from what I gather, the N64 has a bit of an atypical architecture[1] that's made it hard to get the same quality of emulation that the game cube and wii have. It doesn't have a straight up and down GPU, it has what it calls a reality processing unit, that does graphics and sound. And it can be reconfigured with cartridge specific microcode? It's getting into the weeds on hardware des…

The N64 emulation scene has always been heavily drama filled, going back at least 20 years to the original Oman archives. While the system architecture is bizarre, that's fine, we can cope with that. It's always just been a very toxic social space that has pushed a lot of the more talented emulator developers away.

As someone who is in "emulation-adjacent" communities, just yesterday I ran into a giant new pocket of N64 drama I was previously unaware of.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#82

Post by jrajav »

GuiA wrote: post #71
zelon88 wrote: post #69

I like drawing metaphors from Tamiya. Tamiya is a Japanese scale modelling and remote-controlled vehicle company with a loooong history of making quality products that the industry just eats up. Like Nintendo, Tamiya has always been in the back row when it comes to technological innovation, but lead the pack when it came to functionality, reliability, and quality. Just like Nintendo, there are Tamiya fan clubs where…

This is a very cool story, and makes me want to learn more about Tamiya. But the situation does not seem the same to me. People are - for the most part - able to play the old Nintendo games they want through the virtual console, backwards compatibility, remakes, or NES/SNES mini. Yes, some N64 carts are selling for thousands on eBay - but that’s not preventing kids from playing that game if they want to.

The virtual console is exactly how Nintendo lost faith with loyal consumers who want to stay above board. They sold them on the Wii and many fans bought in - but their purchases were not maintained with their digital account for a Wii U update, instead they had to physically transfer them. So far, just annoyances though.

The real problem came when they shipped the Switch with no virtual console at all. It's obviously easy to run NES and SNES games on even the cheapest modern hardware, so there's no excuse for not letting consumers own and play their games on any Nintendo console.

And maybe they just don't think it's worth spending time on shipping their old games, that it wouldn't be profitable? That would be fair enough, but they are spending time - they just released a whole batch of NES / SNES games to push their online subscription service. Of course, you don't get them just by owning them before - you have to buy them again.

It would have been easy to get and keep the good will of long-time loyal fans with a persistent and growing platform of their classic titles, but Nintendo opted for short-term investments instead of long-term in this case.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#83

Post by ginko »

zelon88 wrote: post #69

I like drawing metaphors from Tamiya. Tamiya is a Japanese scale modelling and remote-controlled vehicle company with a loooong history of making quality products that the industry just eats up. Like Nintendo, Tamiya has always been in the back row when it comes to technological innovation, but lead the pack when it came to functionality, reliability, and quality. Just like Nintendo, there are Tamiya fan clubs where…

One of my dreams was always if Nintendo released "development diary" editions of old titles(in particular Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time) where you'd get to try out a playable showcase of the game's builds at particular states in development from very early initial tests, to Alpha, Beta, various trade conference demos etc. Each with developer commentary, perhaps design sketches, deleted content and maybe maybe also some source code.

Essentially like what's pretty much standard for special edition BluRays. Pack that in a nice hardcover booklet and people would eat it up.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#84

Post by tinus_hn »

Timpy wrote: post #59
cycloptic wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an excuse. They can start with the parts they do have access to, while the community can work on (legally) getting the other information from the relevant rightsholders at SGI.

Bryan Cantrill gave a talk that included how difficult it was to take something that wasn't originally intended to be open source and then open source it. I think it was something at Sun before they were acquired by Oracle (iirc Cantrill laments how Oracle effectively un-open-sourced the project). I've watched hours of Cantrill on youtube, I'm having trouble finding which video it was. I can't explain it myself but I…

Not to mention that a company like Nintendo has absolutely nothing to gain from all this effort.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#85

Post by Jasper_ »

coldpie wrote: post #43
echelon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pokemon source code link is still up, but the "mgnet.xyz" link that presumably contains the N64 source no longer works :( I'm a huge N64 enthusiast and wanted to see the Verilog source.

Be wary of doing this if you ever intend to contribute to projects related to Nintendo and the N64. Viewing this material will make you radioactive to projects that care about legal risk.

Eh, the community has already had leaks of similar consequences for 20 years. At the time, it devastated the community, but pretty much all emulators since have been based upon it in some way. The open secret behind emulator development is that it is often built on the backs of stolen material. The first popular N64 PC emulator, Ultra64, was a hacked up copy of Nintendo's PC emulator core.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#86

Post by arbitrage »

tyingq wrote: post #33
roblabla wrote: post #28

To be clear, this doesn't just contain the source code of the software. It also contains the Verilog for the N64 GPU and other important hardware component, which is hugely important. From what I gather, it also contains full version history from their VCS. While it is very interesting, it's worth noting that anybody hoping to use this for anything "serious" risks getting the Nintendo lawyers on their ass. Emulators…

"Emulators won't touch this, neither will console clones" I suppose they wouldn't copy it outright. But wouldn't it be useful as a reference to fix long-standing bugs, improve performance, etc?

Yes, certainly. I find it doubtful that all devs are of the same mind, and nobody will ever look at this. That's just fantasy.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#87

Post by MPSimmons »

gregjw wrote: post #2

Is this bad? Am I misunderstanding? What financial damage does this do when Nintendo no longer manufacturers this console or actively developers for it and hasn't for years, or a decade in the N64/GameCube's case?

The worst case scenario would be if they used some of the copy protection schemes from the consoles in this leak, ported to the Switch.

It seems unlikely to me, but I think that's the only real potential for damage.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#88

Post by colejohnson66 »

tobylane wrote: post #70
tyingq wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Emulators won't touch this, neither will console clones" I suppose they wouldn't copy it outright. But wouldn't it be useful as a reference to fix long-standing bugs, improve performance, etc?

You could have one group document what the leaks describe, then another group implement from the documentation?

Isn’t that what clean room reverse engineering is?

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#89

Post by detritus »

zelon88 wrote: post #78
detritus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait - so I can finally buy the Monster Beetle I dearly wanted as a 14 year old? I imagine the modern iterations are significantly better than those I drooled over as a child, with 30 odd years of improvements in electric motors and batteries?

Yes and no. You can still buy a NiMH battery and a silver can brushed 540 motor if you want too. The price on that stuff has come down significantly. It's the LiPo batteries and brushless motors that cost all the money these days. Then again, they really are in a different league as far as performance and runtime. Back in the day of crystal radios if you wanted to go 50+ MPH you either had to have a nitro engine or y…

I think you just cost me a few hundred quid..!

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#90

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #66

Modern Vintage Gamer just released a video [0] discussing this leak in greater detail along with its expected implications. Anyone who's curious can find the download links by backtracking through all the Pokemon Prototype General threads under the Pokemon board on 4chan. One of the leaks that caught my attention was the source for Pokemon Blue, partially because of nostalgia and partially out of curiosity to see wha…

The most shocking part of this story is still that Nintendo keeps all its code in CVS. CVS!!!
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