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Career advice for people with bad luck

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Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#81

Post by Loughla »

harimau777 wrote: post #78
throw4failure wrote: post #29

This seems like a good thread in which to try to solicit some advice, since it's at least tangentially related. I was terminated from my last job. In my opinion it was due to my chronic and major depression that I have since been seeking extensive treatment (medication, several months rent in therapy) for. I say "in my opinion" because I really can't rule out that I'm just a lazy, crappy developer who is trying to us…

Its fairly likely that your previous employer has a policy that your previous employer will just confirm that you worked there. In that case, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. There are services which you can pay to call up a previous employer pretending to be a new employer doing a background/reference check on you. They will then report back on what they say. In the case that they do say something negative, one…

This is not meant to be hateful, but what an awfully long and needlessly complicated process just to prove that you didn't learn anything from being fired.

Having hired hundreds of people over my career, being fired is not an automatic exclusion, but we would be 100% looking for growth in the person sitting across the table from us. Your process shows no growth.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#82

Post by [deleted] »

rb808 wrote: post #23

A lot of talk here that colleagues aren't friends. What is wrong with you people? If you like your colleagues you can invite them to do stuff after you or they leave. They probably haven't invited you because they never got around to it either. Most of the older generation people met through work is the only way to make friends. No wonder loneliness is so rampant now.

[deleted]

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#83

Post by vsareto »

mdorazio wrote: post #67

I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like: - You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID - Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that ma…

The bad luck is thinking a company is having a good luck and then realize it isn't. Running into people able to manipulate you is also bad luck.

Companies are selling you during the interview. Sometimes good businesses hire bad people who are good at interviews (maliciously or not), sometimes bad businesses who are good at interviews hire good people (maliciously or not).

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#84

Post by mLuby »

blumomo wrote: post #31
meddlepal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people using values to mean interests? I need to share some interests: sports, beer, model building, architecture etc... Values though? I can't see that being the norm unless your shared interest is politics, religion, or social order/dynamics.

aren’t you valuing tennis as a sport if you like to talk about it with colleagues? I’d say that interests and values go a long way together.

In the US at least, "values" has come to mean ethical positions, like those brands and politicians claim. For example, "treating all life as sacred" or "helping the neediest" or "maintaining our traditions." A person might say that politicians and brands "share my values."

Different from interests, hobbies, or shared experiences that provide the basis for most friendships.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#85

Post by omniscient_oce »

ashtonkem wrote: post #2

> The company is not your family. Some of the people in the company are your friends in the current context. It’s like your dorm in college. Hopefully some of them will still be your friends after. But don’t stay because you’re comfortable. This one hit hard. It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Once that was gone…

You may like the Japanese phrase 一期一会 (ichi-go-ichi-e). To me it means that you should cherish each relationship and encounter, regardless of whether you know it will last a long time or not. You may never get the chance to experience that particular relationship again. I actually learnt this word firsthand from a man that it applies to, an middle-aged Japanese guy who was volunteering with kids near where I live. We got along well, laughed and ate, but he went back home and I will never see him again. But that doesn't diminish the worthiness of experiencing of getting to know him and enjoying time together, because all things have their place. I'm writing this as much for me as for you or anyone else here. Good night

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#86

Post by throw4failure »

vharuck wrote: post #59
throw4failure wrote: post #29

This seems like a good thread in which to try to solicit some advice, since it's at least tangentially related. I was terminated from my last job. In my opinion it was due to my chronic and major depression that I have since been seeking extensive treatment (medication, several months rent in therapy) for. I say "in my opinion" because I really can't rule out that I'm just a lazy, crappy developer who is trying to us…

That's a tough one. I've never been an interviewer but have lost a couple short-term jobs because of depression. I also think it's the right way to avoid talking about the details. It's a medical condition. You might be able to say "I put off seeking medical attention for too long, and it got in the way of doing my job. That was a wake-up call, so I've focused on getting better since then." Was that the first resume-…

Thanks for the answer :)

> If you have been fired from multiple resume-relevant jobs, then don't use the "I learned and won't repeat it" part. In a perfect world, the interviewer should know. Not because you're an immoral worker, but because it's a risk you and your employer would share.

Thankfully, although I think I've had depression for several years, I've left all other employers on good terms. For some reason things just spiraled heavily this last year, but long story short I don't have a pattern of termination.

> Finally, you "messed up" in the way that a dropped glass hits the floor: no point shaming the glass. Be proud of seeking treatment, but remember there was also luck in that decision. Our ideas of choice and responsibility are more complicated than usual when psychological disorders get mixed in.

There definitely was. If it hadn't been for my family and friends I would have avoided treatment much longer than I did, in addition to probably getting deep into substances. We're all products of circumstance and luck to varying degrees, and I've - all things considered - been very, very lucky.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#87

Post by draw_down »

growlist wrote: post #27
rb808 wrote: post #23

A lot of talk here that colleagues aren't friends. What is wrong with you people? If you like your colleagues you can invite them to do stuff after you or they leave. They probably haven't invited you because they never got around to it either. Most of the older generation people met through work is the only way to make friends. No wonder loneliness is so rampant now.

There's a kind of snobby attitude at play here sometimes I think, as in: 'of course I wouldn't socialise with my colleagues outside work! They are nowhere near as interesting as me and my super-awesome, quirky and unique bunch of mates, I'm just slumming it for the money'.

Well, sometimes it happens that the people you work with really are duller than those in other parts of tour life. Jobs are jobs.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#88

Post by giantg2 »

throw4failure wrote: post #71
giantg2 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know you leave references until the end. I will not be able to get a reference if I leave. My company's policy does not allow employees to be a reference for anyone who is leaving.

This isn't uncommon, and as I understand it follows directly from the typical HR policy of only confirming the essentials, such as title, dates of employment and reason for leaving. Companies care more about possible litigation than they do about helping you with your next job. However, in my experience it's haphazardly enforced. If you're on good terms with a colleague or manager, it's my understanding (IANAL) that…

I've only really heard about this policy at some of the larger companies more recently. I didn't know it is becoming a common thing.

I guess it's just another sign of corporate hypocrisy - please provide references when applying, but we will not allow you a reference when leaving.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#89

Post by gilbetron »

moneywoes wrote: post #8
ashtonkem wrote: post #2

> The company is not your family. Some of the people in the company are your friends in the current context. It’s like your dorm in college. Hopefully some of them will still be your friends after. But don’t stay because you’re comfortable. This one hit hard. It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Once that was gone…

Been working 3 months at my first job and this realization hit me. I enjoy spending time with my coworkers but is it all in vain?

The vast majority of all friends you meet tend to fade away. It isn't that you aren't friends anymore, it is that life has pulled you in different directions. It may help to realize that if you were put back in a work/school/whatever situation, you'd almost certainly enjoy each other again.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#90

Post by username90 »

Step 1: Get a well paying job at a big tech company. There is very little luck involved in this, just get really good at algorithms. No need for a famous school, specific degree etc. It requires intelligence, if you don't have that then you need luck.

Step 2: Save more than two thirds of your take home salary, you can still live way better than the people sweeping the office floor.

Step 3: You now have a ton of money saved up, take whatever risks you like or just retire early.

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