Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

vac.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 90 posts

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#81

Post by tanilama »

filoleg wrote: post #80
tanilama wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the international opinion is that there is no WeChat competitor in China because people are afraid to step on the toes of those in power But how can there isn't a WeChat competitor, that actually does all the things WeChat is capable of in US/EU? Regarding WeChat as if it is another chat application only means you have never been a regular user of it, which is probably true to most HN folks. WeChat actually…

> But how can there isn't a WeChat competitor, that actually does all the things WeChat is capable of in US/EU? For many reasons, but I think a major one is because neither EU nor US (both people and governments) would be cool with all aspects of one's life being functional ONLY by using this one app. Imagine if a WeChat competitor came out in EU/US, and now you cannot use transit without this app at all, or buy thin…

What you are saying is to provide an explanation why WeChat-like apps didn't and probably are not going to happen outside of China, but it still means there is NO WeChat alternatives outside China.

The reason is not that important however.

The Chinese market is unique, Western economy can't create something like WeChat doesn't mean that its existence is something abnormal.

Chinese companies create something more to the liking of Chinese consumers should get anyone surprised. When it comes to internet, and no one is enjoying natural advantage.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#82

Post by sho_hn »

verst wrote: post #75
sho_hn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similar with KakaoTalk in Korea, which now also has a payment system in addition to acting as a regular bank, and allows you to buy various things including, say, hairdresser appointments. 93% smartphone market share.

Kakao has a separate app for everything. Quite different from WeChat. KakaoTalk, KakaoTaxi, KakaoPay etc etc I wouldn't say that those are all extremely well integrated with each other.

Sorta both - the hairdresser booking and other commerce is in the main messenger app.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#83

Post by rstuart4133 »

shalmanese wrote: post #55
m11a wrote: post #14

I think people that feel WeChat is simply a social network don't understand WeChat. Though the article doesn't say this, the comments here and popular opinion generally think that. From my time visiting China I'm not sure it's possible to live, in the urban areas, without WeChat. Payments are basically all through WeChat; I found places that didn't take Visa/Mastercard (or even know what those were, although that may…

Nowadays, it's literally impossible to live in China without either WeChat or Alipay as health codes are integrated into the apps and it can be impossible to move outside without displaying your health code. Travelling on trains, planes and long haul busses now require you to have the app. I don't think enough has been made about how extraordinary it is that a sovereign government has let such a core governmental fun…

So I gather in China you pay for retail purchases WeChat or Alipay and they are privately owned? It's not very different in Australia. We have Visa and Mastercard, both privately owned.

In Australia, the old rule "everyone must accept cash" has been swept away by covid-19. They've even upped limit you have at which you have to enter a PIN, so most purchases are contactless. Cash will be another casualty of covid-19 I guess. There are only two contactless platforms accepted everywhere - Visa and Master. Both are privately held. And they are head quartered in another country.

Is the USA so different?

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#84

Post by lvturner »

tensor wrote: post #7
lvturner wrote: post #4

I only skim read this, but it feels like you could swap "WeChat" for any messaging system or social networking site

That's definitely not true. WeChat has a bunch of ecommerce stuff built in among other features. You can pay for stuff on WeChat and there are stores. It even has translation built in to facilitate buying and selling between people from different countries. I think there are also apps and other stuff there too. It's more like a chat app that became an ecommerce and mini-app platform.

Facebook also has all of this, though I conceed that it doesn't have a built in user to user payments solution... Yet.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#85

Post by aianus »

whytai wrote: post #78
blackrock wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall, this actually happened a few months ago, but with Uber. What happened, was Uber started dropping customers that had a poor rating. Maybe they didn’t give a $5 tip, so the driver gave them a poor rating. Who knows why. But the result is that the public, the customer in question, can no longer use Uber’s services. This is terrifying, in that Uber wanted to eliminate public taxi services, and privatize it on t…

A few points. Uber drivers cannot see if individual riders have tipped them. They also cannot see your individual rating of them, nor you of theirs. Policing their own platform works both ways. When I order an uber I expect a certain quality of service. ie a safe, comfortable ride. Likewise, when I drive for uber I expect people to respect my property (my car). I expect uber to fulfill both of these things so that it…

> Uber drivers cannot see if individual riders have tipped them.

This is not true, I can see exactly which rides included a tip. However, I can't see this before I rate the rider so I can't penalize a rider for not tipping.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#86

Post by querez »

This might be onpopular, but I don't think you should aim for "no censorship" and "no way for authority to police people". As we're seeing in today's social media, unfettered communication is not something you might want. Think of all the misinformation, trolling and conspiracy theories going on in our western social media _despite_ very heavy efforts to contain them by Facebook, Google and Twitter. This is biting us hard in our current crisis, where people are going as far as burning down 5G masts, thinking they are heros fighting against the government-ordered spread of Covid-19 [0]. The older I get, the more I start to think that the police fulfills a very fundamental function in our society, no matter how free that society thinks it is. And we likely do want some policing in our virtual worlds as well. Whatever the next social media is going to be (it seems to me that this is what you're trying to plan out here), it should include some sort of moderation option of some case.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/technology/coronavirus-5g...

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#87

Post by tehlike »

shalmanese wrote: post #66
system16 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem that extraordinary if in this scenario Google became an appendage of the federal government, providing it complete and unfettered access to its systems, complied to any and all requests without question, there was never concern for overreach or public backlash, etc.

People outside of China have wildly unrealistic ideas about the true relationship between large Chinese tech companies and the government. https://www.ft.com/content/760142e6-740e-11ea-95fe-fcd274e92... is sadly paywalled but it's an excellent account of the actual negotiations that have been going on between Tencent, Alibaba and the many different bureaucratic layers of the Chinese government.

http://archive.is/ApUOz

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#88

Post by shalmanese »

yumraj wrote: post #72
shalmanese wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays, it's literally impossible to live in China without either WeChat or Alipay as health codes are integrated into the apps and it can be impossible to move outside without displaying your health code. Travelling on trains, planes and long haul busses now require you to have the app. I don't think enough has been made about how extraordinary it is that a sovereign government has let such a core governmental fun…

the for profit business has deep relationship with the government and is perhaps like its virtual arm, and it benefits the government by providing deeper access to people's activities.

A better way of describing this is, imagine that for the $1200 stimulus checks the US is sending out, the only way to receive that money would be to install a web app where your only choices are Sign in with Google or Sign in with Facebook. Once signed in, Google/Facebook would use their proprietary big data algorithms to determine if you are eligible for stimulus and, if you are, they would deposit it directly into your account via Google Pay/Facebook Pay.

If they reject you and you believe it's in error, the only way to clear up that error is to talk to a Google/Facebook employee, there's no way to directly talk to the US government.

On the one hand, it fixes one of the problems with the stimulus which is that it's not getting money into the hands of people fast enough. A Google/FB run system could have probably gotten the money into people's hands in days rather than the months it's taking the US govt. On the other hand, it's a totally wild scenario. There's no way it would even be thinkable that that's what the US government would roll out.

But that's the reality in China right now. For example, the law in Beijing right now is that you cannot check yourself into a hotel without showing a green Beijing Health Code and you can't get a health code without installing WeChat/Alipay. That's how crazy the situation is in China. Totally core government functions are being outsourced to for profit, private companies.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#89

Post by freetrial »

shalmanese wrote: post #66
system16 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem that extraordinary if in this scenario Google became an appendage of the federal government, providing it complete and unfettered access to its systems, complied to any and all requests without question, there was never concern for overreach or public backlash, etc.

People outside of China have wildly unrealistic ideas about the true relationship between large Chinese tech companies and the government. https://www.ft.com/content/760142e6-740e-11ea-95fe-fcd274e92... is sadly paywalled but it's an excellent account of the actual negotiations that have been going on between Tencent, Alibaba and the many different bureaucratic layers of the Chinese government.

Does anyone actually believe these long-winded articles that attempt to paint some sort of contentious, arms-length relationship between the CCP and their state-funded tech companies?

Obviously, the relationship is messy. But it's undoubtedly basic cronyism, and these companies succeed because they are the 'chosen ones' and their direct ties to government officials.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#90

Post by zelphirkalt »

verst wrote: post #70
zelphirkalt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is possible to live there without WeChat. That's an illusion I get tired of hearing. Been there in 2019, done it, had no problems using cash. Probably Mastercard would also have wirked for buying a train ticket, if I had persisted and acted as if I did not have it in cash. (And no, no one robbed me.)

No problems using cash? Sure, if you only go to the stores and restaurants catering to foreigners. Last year I noticed I could no longer use cash to touch up my Shanghai Transportation card balance. There are still some touch up machines but they now only accept WeChat / AliPay QR codes for payment. I have to go to the one service counter in the station to use cash to touch it up and sometimes those aren't even staff…

> No problems using cash? Sure, if you only go to the stores and restaurants catering to foreigners.

Well, maybe you've been in a different region or something, but I've been in capital of a 2 provinces and quite rural areas too, no problems whatsoever. Sounds like you are talking exclusively about Shanghai. I've not been specifically to Shanghai, so who knows, maybe there it is that shitty. Not where I went though, so don't try to discredit my telling of how it is as "visiting only stores and restaurants catering to foreigners", cause that's BS.

> If you buy streetfood (from those BBQs late at night in the middle of city intersections for example in Shanghai) you now find that payment with WeChat may be the only option.

Done that, with cash, in a major city, capital of a province.

> Beggars don't want cash and instead are displaying a big WeChat QR code to receive payments.

Perhaps in Shanghai as well? I've seen them begging for cash, where I went, so that is also a quite general statement to make.

Seems your personal experience is either limited to Shanghai or simply completely different. Speak a little Chinese to the locals and they lighten up. Never on my whole trip have I encountered a single situation, where they would not take cash, while having seen a lot of different places, from capitals to villages, to street food, to little markets. Perhaps just don't go to Shanghai, if it is that bad.

I find it a little bit stupid, that people downvote a first hand account of how things are in several areas in China, as if it was something bad in a discussion about such things. This is exactly what this discussion is about, so it's on topic and adds valuable information to the discussion: Not everywhere it is as you describe it to be. Don't confuse any personal location limited experience with an overall situation in a huge nation like China.

Post reply on HN