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Dirty Percent

daringfireball.net

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Re: Dirty Percent

#81

Post by erikpukinskis »

sutro wrote: post #24
siglesias wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad hominem. You should address logical flaws and false statements. And he was critical of Apple in two of the four points, so your premise is false. Edit: This discussion is also something of a strawman, attacking none of the important arguments made in the article. The point about what Gruber would say if Microsoft had done this is simply a preemption of an ad hominem attack against himself and it's quite unfortunat…

Does anyone know of a browser plugin that will automatically eliminate from view any Hacker News comment containing the phrase "ad hominem?" Ad-Hom Block Pro or some such?

If someone makes one, they should call it "No Homi"

Re: Dirty Percent

#82

Post by icarus_drowning »

sutro wrote: post #24
siglesias wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad hominem. You should address logical flaws and false statements. And he was critical of Apple in two of the four points, so your premise is false. Edit: This discussion is also something of a strawman, attacking none of the important arguments made in the article. The point about what Gruber would say if Microsoft had done this is simply a preemption of an ad hominem attack against himself and it's quite unfortunat…

Does anyone know of a browser plugin that will automatically eliminate from view any Hacker News comment containing the phrase "ad hominem?" Ad-Hom Block Pro or some such?

At least the phrase gives you a point of attack if you disagree. You get to say "it isn't ad hominem because of reason X".

I find this far better than responding to arguments that deliberately attempt to obfuscate avenues of attack by couching everything in terms of "opinion" or "I have opinion X, but".

Re: Dirty Percent

#83

Post by icarus_drowning »

mbrubeck wrote: post #45
Lewisham wrote: post #4

I used to be a big fan of Gruber, but I'm getting increasingly tired of his "defend Apple at all costs" mentality. When Apple was the underdog, it all seemed to be about not what was possible, but what was fair, and what was right. Now it's a "Well, of course Apple would do that, wouldn't you?" And he then punts on the biggest question of all: What if Microsoft did this with Windows, and, say, tried to require Apple…

What I like about Gruber, even when I disagree with him, is that I think he understands , better than any other outside commentator, how Apple's management team thinks and works. He's not a leading expert on business, or on technology, but I'd call him a leading expert on Steve Jobs' mind. This understanding is part of why Gruber often seems like an Apple apologist. Even when he disagrees with Apple' decisions, he ca…

I think where this gets annoying is when it becomes impossible to discern when Gruber is just "explaining what Apple is thinking" and when he is putting forth his own opinion. Its tiresome to criticize his Apple apologism and constantly run into the counter-argument that "he isn't really saying that its OK for Apple to engage in X practice, he's just explaining it", because it is often difficult (if not impossible) to discern if that's the case.

I do think Gruber intentionally blurs that line to insulate himself from criticism. And I think that's pretty dishonest and petty-- much like his irritatingly self-satisfied one-off comments aimed at his opponents. (Technology related and otherwise).

EDIT: Minor grammatical correction

Re: Dirty Percent

#84

Post by kule »

kenjackson wrote: post #60
mdonahoe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gruber said it http://daringfireball.net/2011/02/the_next_six_months

From an actual, yet unnamed, Apple Staffer: http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-staffer-ipad-3-is-the-one-to-... That's what I was thinking of. Kind of throws a wet towel on the already rumored incremental iPad2 release.

I wonder if they are releasing too fast with the iPad - with a mobile phone an annual release cycle makes sense as that market changes so fast and they are subsidised for a lot of people.

However the iPad is pretty billed as the future computer replacement. I don't think a new version every year will sell as well.

Re: Dirty Percent

#85

Post by tjmc »

jonknee wrote: post #55
mbrubeck wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I like about Gruber, even when I disagree with him, is that I think he understands , better than any other outside commentator, how Apple's management team thinks and works. He's not a leading expert on business, or on technology, but I'd call him a leading expert on Steve Jobs' mind. This understanding is part of why Gruber often seems like an Apple apologist. Even when he disagrees with Apple' decisions, he ca…

> This understanding is part of why he often seems like an Apple apologist. Even when Gruber disagrees with Apple' decisions, he can generally give a good explanation of why the decision was made and why Steve and Tim and company probably think it is the right one. And of course, when he is writing based on Apple's point of view as a corporation, the primary question is always "What is best for Apple?" Yet he rarely…

He's made a comfortable life as a professional sycophant. Better to swallow some pride occasionally than derail the gravy train.

Re: Dirty Percent

#86

Post by tjmc »

kenjackson wrote: post #60
mdonahoe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gruber said it http://daringfireball.net/2011/02/the_next_six_months

From an actual, yet unnamed, Apple Staffer: http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-staffer-ipad-3-is-the-one-to-... That's what I was thinking of. Kind of throws a wet towel on the already rumored incremental iPad2 release.

I didn't know Adam Osborne worked at Apple

Re: Dirty Percent

#87

Post by haraball »

jonknee wrote: post #46
swombat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs has already commented, in an email, that this isn't meant for SaaS apps: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/21/steve-jobs-email-suggest...

For now. They can change that at any point like they did for publishers.

I wonder if they are going to do the same for the OS X app store if it gets popular enough.

Re: Dirty Percent

#88

Post by oemera »

colinprince wrote: post #3

tl;dr On businesses that can't afford 30%: Too bad, Apple wants to be the middleman On price matching: Apple won't budge because their competitors (e.g. Amazon) insist on price matching On the 30% slice itself: Apple is proposing that publishers (et al) will make more money at 70% than they'd make at 95% with someone else's business model On (anti-)competitiveness: Apple is the only one which allows its competitors t…

What I do not understand is why no-one is complaining about Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 as a closed system but about Apples iOS line.

WHY is Apple bad for closing a system but Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are not? I really do not understand that.

WHY on earth has a cellphone to be open as a OpenSource project? Is there a reason for that? (Android has open sources but no-one can commit changes. It's all in Googles hands what comes into the next Android version which doesn't fit with OpenSource at all)

WHY is taking a 30% cut bad for all developers and Apps? (Jobs said that the 30% cut is not for SASS Apps but only for Newspaper Apps, right?)

Please give me some answers I'm starting to don't understand these discussions lately.

Re: Dirty Percent

#89

Post by CaptainZapp »

oemera wrote: post #88
colinprince wrote: post #3

tl;dr On businesses that can't afford 30%: Too bad, Apple wants to be the middleman On price matching: Apple won't budge because their competitors (e.g. Amazon) insist on price matching On the 30% slice itself: Apple is proposing that publishers (et al) will make more money at 70% than they'd make at 95% with someone else's business model On (anti-)competitiveness: Apple is the only one which allows its competitors t…

What I do not understand is why no-one is complaining about Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 as a closed system but about Apples iOS line. WHY is Apple bad for closing a system but Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are not? I really do not understand that. WHY on earth has a cellphone to be open as a OpenSource project? Is there a reason for that? (Android has open sources but no-one can commit changes. It's all in Googles hand…

A console is a very different biest from a mobile communication device, of which openness and interoperability is hugely advantegous to society.

Thus the line apple is toeing here is a dangerous one.

I wouldn't make the same argument for iPods, iPads or Macs.

Re: Dirty Percent

#90

Post by Stormbringer »

kmfrk wrote: post #69
chollida1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He earns money from ads, do you think he would earn less should he write critically about Apple? Well, he has stated on many occasions that he has "sources" inside of Apple where he gets alot of his information from. If he started to be overly critical of Apple and his sources suddenly dried up then his writing would suffer, his readership would go down and his ad revenue would decease. So I'd say it's pretty easy…

Scrap "overly critical", I just want him to be critical. And what is the incentive of the Apple insiders? While Gruber may not, they are perfectly capable of forming their own, independent opinions on what Apple proper does, as orthogonal as they may be.

"I just want him to be critical."

Why? When 99% of the media sledges Apple with no reason, why do you care if 1% supports Apple with no reason?

----

The thing that gets me about the Apple vs $var debates, is that most of the people screaming about how they hate Apple have never tried Apple. Whereas the people supporting Apple against $var have almost invariably tried $var and found it lacking.

One side brings informed opinions, the other brings baseless bile. Whenever I see that happen, regardless of the topic, I know which side of that divide I want to be on.

-----

True story: today I went down to the local $non_profit and helped out one of the guys get his new Apple laptop hooked up to the network and the network printer. The network worked immediately after entering the WEP password. The printer didn't work first time, so I deleted it and tried with new settings. It worked the second time. I also tried to persuade him of the virtues of buying a 1-2TB drive and using Time Machine.

It was so easy it was embarrassing.

I contrast that with some work I did with a startup last year. I bought one of their own Windows laptops into their HQ, and trying to get onto their own wireless network was a nightmare, even though I had a room full of techies to help. I strongly suspect that in the end the tech support guy just turned off the wireless router and left it off because it was too much trouble.

I'll do Apple support for love (ie free support for friends and family) , but you couldn't pay me enough to do Windows support. I fully appreciate the guys that do take on that thankless task, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Does that make me an incoherent raving Mac fanboy? Some would say so. But at the same $non_profit I stood and patiently nodded while one of the 70 year old blokes told me about his Windows experiences. At the end I fully commended him (he's running anti-virus, anti-spam and does regular backups) for his efforts, and I assured him that he was doing the right thing with the backups, to keep doing exactly what he is doing. I didn't preach to him about Apple at all, I don't see the need. If he's happy, let him be happy. If he is doing everything right but has some nagging feeling that he should be doing something else, I will reassure him that he's miles ahead of the rest of the pack.

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