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Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

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Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#81

Post by tandr »

Reedx wrote: post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

Like... military coming in and taking over of the hospital over concern of "public health"? Administration of these places should see an _immediate_ danger to their positions, otherwise I am failing to see possibilities for any swift action, sorry.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#82

Post by davidg109 »

Former PM for a hospital. Listen, I have a lot of trust and respect for physicians, moreso now than ever.

Unfortunately, there are some bad apple physicians who are very aware of the power they wield and if they feel something needs improvement, they will be extremely vocal... Sometimes at the detriment of the truth.

I've been subject to the spread of misinformation by a couple of physicians related to some past projects, and it's not pretty. All you can do is try to re-educate these same physicians who are misunderstanding some facts, and as you can imagine, it's an uphill battle.

I would make the effort to understand both sides of the coin before assuming these "big, bad" hospitals are in the wrong. As they say, the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#84

Post by joshstrange »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #75
joshstrange wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is not directed towards you as much as the hospitals 1. All regulations are pretty far out the window at this point, nurses are already reusing single-use items all over the place. 2. Oh so since we can't protect everyone we can't protect anyone?

I agree in general, especially on point 1. If it's just an issue of regulations then that is insane. On the second point I would actually be more sympathetic to their position (though probably not enough to actually ban employees from doing it). Humans are funny and if some people on a unit have better equipment than others it can certainly cause some interpersonal tension that over-stressed hospitals can't deal with…

It would be a different story if hospitals were upfront and honest. They are currently being neither.

They should be protecting the people who can actually help save other people even if they can't protect everyone. Should nurses in KY stop wearing masks because nurses in NY are out? I understand you point on "interpersonal tension" but people need to get over it right now and protect themselves in whatever way possible even if that means I walk into a hospital and see a nurse with a bandana over their face (already happening in some hospitals AND part of the CDC "Strategies for Optimizing the Supply of Facemasks" [0] -- Read the "HCP use of homemade masks" section)

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/f...

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#85

Post by vsskanth »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #47
jethro_tell wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only lies with them in collective action. Any one individual has to look after their family and doesn't have much power. Now, if they all stop working, at the same time, then they have the power and the ability to protect their families at the same time.

Remember, the stimulus bill just passed by Congress provides for arguably robust unemployment benefits for those who lose employment because of COVID, including having to quarantine to protect one’s self. I agree collective action is the path to long term success, but these workers should not feel a gun is being held to their head by health system administration.

but you don't get unemployment payments if you're fired

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#86

Post by toomuchtodo »

vsskanth wrote: post #85
toomuchtodo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, the stimulus bill just passed by Congress provides for arguably robust unemployment benefits for those who lose employment because of COVID, including having to quarantine to protect one’s self. I agree collective action is the path to long term success, but these workers should not feel a gun is being held to their head by health system administration.

but you don't get unemployment payments if you're fired

I am confident your unemployment claim will be processed if you were fired for refusing to work in hazardous conditions by your health system employer, as this would qualify as wrongful termination.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#88

Post by vsskanth »

davidg109 wrote: post #82

Former PM for a hospital. Listen, I have a lot of trust and respect for physicians, moreso now than ever. Unfortunately, there are some bad apple physicians who are very aware of the power they wield and if they feel something needs improvement, they will be extremely vocal... Sometimes at the detriment of the truth. I've been subject to the spread of misinformation by a couple of physicians related to some past proj…

The ask in this context seems to be simple - adequate PPE while treating a highly infectious virus.

Evidence from Spain suggests medical professionals on the frontline are at very high risk.

maybe you can share why you think it is unfair on the hospitals in this case ?

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#89

Post by Bombthecat »

save_ferris wrote: post #46
lonelappde wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors are the strongest guild in USA. They have the legal power to enforce a chronic shortage of doctors. That's why why PAs were invented.

You're proving my point. If one of the most powerful labor groups in the economy is being subjected to ruthless firing for speaking out on critical health issues during a national crisis, then what does that say about the state of labor in the US in general?

That the lack of ppe can't be that bad.

A cynical would say.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#90

Post by kwhitefoot »

lonelappde wrote: post #38
vkou wrote: post #29

Remember when authoritarian countries were punishing doctors for whistle-blowing? Anyone who has ever worked for a living should not be surprised that this sort of behaviour is alive and well here, too.

In the USA we have free market oppression, not State-controlled.

Presumably that makes it much more efficient and cost effective.
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