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Open Source Ventilator Project

opensourceventilator.ie

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Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#81

Post by gpm »

newman314 wrote: post #77
gpm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this idea that "panic buying" is necessarily bad. We are moving goods from communal locations to people's homes. We aren't destroying goods. Once/if the virus does arrive in a large volume at the location we would greatly rather that people stayed at home and ate food they had stockpiled than that they then went to the grocery store. Dealing with shipping extra products now (while a very small fraction of…

Panic buying also usually implies long lines of people waiting in close proximity to each other leading to additional vectors of potential infection. So yeah, no.

I'd rather long lines today when very few people are infected, than having lines tomorrow when many people are infected. We can sacrifice a little R0 when the base population of infected is small to get a smaller R0 when the base population is large.

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#82

Post by lern_too_spel »

arcticbull wrote: post #65
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in China they seem to have forced everyone to stay home? The UK appears to have decided allowing 500,000 of us to die was a bad idea and we're now on "lockdown". At least everyone is _advised_ to socially distance, because - it seems - then businesses can still fire people for not turning up to work, and insurers can avoid paying out ("you chose to stop the event, you weren't obliged to"). I'm not sure we can te…

> Well in China they seem to have forced everyone to stay home? Well, it's China. > The UK appears to have decided allowing 500,000 of us to die was a bad idea and we're now on "lockdown". 500,000 people dying wasn't going to happen. Korea's death rate is closer to 0.4%, almost entirely the older folks who were to be quarantined at home during this process anyways. Korea's death rate for under-40's is 0-0.1%, so at w…

Where are you getting this 0.4% number from? Korea is testing extensively, so CFR is very close to IFR, and CFR is above 1%.

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#83

Post by ClumsyPilot »

chrisseaton wrote: post #3

> 15-20% of infected people require hospitalization for respiratory problems This is wrong - it's 15-20% of identified , diagnosed and subsequently monitored infected people, isn't it? I thought there was a mass of unidentified infected people, and even basically diagnosed but told to just deal with it at home with no further contact as they're low risk and minimal symptoms, and (obviously) 0% of these groups are goi…

Got to love hackernews, in a discussion of tools to fight global pandemic, the top comment nitpicks an number that everyone knows is imprecise, and offers nothing constructive.

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#85

Post by antonvs »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #83
chrisseaton wrote: post #3

> 15-20% of infected people require hospitalization for respiratory problems This is wrong - it's 15-20% of identified , diagnosed and subsequently monitored infected people, isn't it? I thought there was a mass of unidentified infected people, and even basically diagnosed but told to just deal with it at home with no further contact as they're low risk and minimal symptoms, and (obviously) 0% of these groups are goi…

Got to love hackernews, in a discussion of tools to fight global pandemic, the top comment nitpicks an number that everyone knows is imprecise, and offers nothing constructive.

> everyone knows

I found his comment helpful because I wouldn't necessarily have thought of that.

Yours, however, adds nothing useful to the conversation.

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#86

Post by joe_the_user »

chrisseaton wrote: post #3

> 15-20% of infected people require hospitalization for respiratory problems This is wrong - it's 15-20% of identified , diagnosed and subsequently monitored infected people, isn't it? I thought there was a mass of unidentified infected people, and even basically diagnosed but told to just deal with it at home with no further contact as they're low risk and minimal symptoms, and (obviously) 0% of these groups are goi…

You are wrong according to the WHO investigation of the events in China.[1]

You are wrong according to the statistics that came out of Korea - if there was an invisible group of asymptomatic, Korea's infection rate couldn't have been controlled. [2]

This destructive belief has persisted for a while because it made sense for various flu epidemic and gave the comforting idea most infections would be harmless. But is now with us at scale and all the evidence points to a rough 20%, 1-in-5 hospitalization rate [3]. I wish actual authorities would spend more time debunking this (even get fully clear on it themselves).

[1] https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-chi...

[2] Look at covid19info.live and look at the South Korean statistics. There's reason to think Korea found most if not all infection. Similar reasoning also applies to China.

[3] Edit: Discussion of CDC study: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/488325-cdc-data-show-c...

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#87

Post by joe_the_user »

ldng wrote: post #36
chrisseaton wrote: post #3

> 15-20% of infected people require hospitalization for respiratory problems This is wrong - it's 15-20% of identified , diagnosed and subsequently monitored infected people, isn't it? I thought there was a mass of unidentified infected people, and even basically diagnosed but told to just deal with it at home with no further contact as they're low risk and minimal symptoms, and (obviously) 0% of these groups are goi…

You're absolutely right. But does it really matter ? A lot more ventilator are going to be needed, not in % but in hard cold real absolute number. Isn't that more important ?

No, he's wrong and you're wrong.

There's no evidence supporting the theory that large numbers of asymptomatic people offset the figure of 20% of patient being severe cases. Hospitalizations and death skyrocket in Covids infected areas, we know what this thing looks like at scale. Plus Who report, pattern of infection, China and Korea eliminated visible cases and haven't seen many more etc.

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#88

Post by joe_the_user »

chrisseaton wrote: post #40
ldng wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right. But does it really matter ? A lot more ventilator are going to be needed, not in % but in hard cold real absolute number. Isn't that more important ?

> But does it really matter ? Yes - I think we should challenge misleading information wherever we see it in this situation. Fighting panic is part of the problem and bad numbers cause panic. I mean, if we don't really care that the numbers aren't accurate because it's more important to emphasise why the project is important, we might as well go all the way and say 99% of people need a ventilator and really sell the…

Yes - I think we should challenge misleading information wherever we see it in this situation

Indeed, and your information is wrong and misleading, stop it. You listed no sources and are going on "I thought..." You thought wrong.

Re: Open Source Ventilator Project

#89

Post by plerpin »

scottlegrand2 wrote: post #60
DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

I made some remarks about ventilator alternatives here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22624959 To pull out some pertinent details: Ventilators for covid19 seem to be mostly for inflammation and fluid in the lungs (aka pneumonia), not lung or chest paralysis. If you need a ventilator due to inflammation or fluid build up, you can do other things to address those issues. If you are doing home care for serious lu…

I get bronchitis once or twice a year. The method by which I clear it is to hang upside down until the s * just comes out of me by coughing as hard as I can. That sounds awfully similar.

I wonder if coughing on an inversion table would work.
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