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Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

grumpygamer.com

81–90 of 108 posts

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#81
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first got an iPad I was almost certain this was going to herald a great resurgence of point-and-click style adventure games. I still don't really understand why it didn't. Unwillingness to pay for software I suppose? The interaction is perfect for a touch screen, the display is amazing, and the casual demographic seems like the ideal one to pick it up. Even puzzle games, like Phoenix Wright, would have worked…

Hovering the mouse was an essential mechanic in all the best point-and-clicks. Games that don't give a hint that an object is interactable on hovering are impossible to play. Games that highlight all interactable objects from start are boring and cut all the fun of discovery. That could be a a reason.

There's probably several ways around this. One could just be making everything interactable in a "drag it around" sense, but only some things actually able to interact with other objects or able to be placed in a bin for later.

Although, come to think of it, game design that compels you to put every random thing in a bin because "it might be handy later" is one of the things I hate about open world games and their crafting/inventory systems.

Alternatively, they could just make you double-tap to interact and single tap to take a closer look or something. 3D touch had some interesting possibilities as well.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially confusing since "get" to my knowledge has been the conventional keyword used for this action in the vast majority of parser games and MUDs (maybe "take" in some cases, but "pick-up"? Really?). I'm a native English-speaker and that still probably would have stumped me for a while.

Back then, when there was no internet (or it wasn't widespread), Sierra On-Line games were vicious . Not only the wrong action meant instea-death, hope-you-have-a-savegame, but they were also sometimes impenetrable in an age where there weren't internet forums to ask for help. (There were hint books you had to buy, which in my mind were a scam). For example, in Space Quest 2 there was a puzzle where some strange crea…

Ah, the old "Speak, friend, and enter" of Tolkien fame.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#83

Makes me think of the Kings Quest games. In Kings Quest 5 you could find a pie and then you could eat it. But you needed it later to throw in the face of a Yeti. Still loved those games though

First thing I thought of, too. There were lots of things you could do that would make the game unwinnable. Like in the first one, leaving a gate open would allow a goat to wander off and you needed the goat later. In another one, you there was a fire that would go out X screen changes after finding it for the first time, and you needed embers from it.

This article seems to directly call out a lot of the King's Quest mechanics and puzzles.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#84
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about 'drag-to-hover' and 'tap-to-interact'? I don't feel like this is an unsolvable UI problem, when some core apps have 3-finger-pinch-and-drag-while-swiping gestures.

Never saw a 'drag-to-hover' design, but guessing from the name, could be a very neat solution to the problem I mentioned. Worth trying. Startup idea: buy the rights of a critically-praised-comercially-failed adventure game from the 90s, port it to iPad with this mechanic. :) I would play.

Drag-to-hover and click-to-click is common on touch screens. Try out scummvm or the various remasters of adventure games for android tablets. Highly recommend Broken Sword, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle, etc.

Currently play Broken Sword on pass-the-tablet with screen duplicate streaming to the wall size tv, for effectively social couch coop. Try it with friends and family, or whoever you happen to be locked in with at the moment.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#85
post #5

I so desperately want to like adventure games. I love the visual styles, I love the storytelling opportunities, but the idea of being defeated by an opaque puzzle infuriates me.

Try the walking games, like Firewatch, Gone Home, Ethan Carter, Edith Finch, Dear Esther? Dour though.

Revolution (Broken Sword, etc) tend to have fewer puzzles outside the context of the story than Lucas Arts (Monkey Island, etc).

Some of the modern groups have built some really good stuff. Try Resonance for a great brain fry, or Technobabylon, Gemini Rue, Shardlight, Cathy Rain for lighter noggin usage. IIRC telltales Sam and Max had fun story and humour while light on puzzles.

adventuregamers.com has a large library of reviews with a general scoring and som "good" and "bad" points. I've found their taste to be relevant enough to look at, while figuring out which good/bad to look for or avoid respectively.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#86
post #23

I haven’t seen a good analysis of it yet, but has anyone seen a list of “Guidelines for creating a good/entertaining ‘Troll’ Game” (e.g. IWTBTG, most Mario Maker levels, etc.)? It seems like such a guide would almost be an inversion of some of the principles in this guide: in troll games, you tend to learn only by dying; the puzzles always require things you forgot in the previous room, and you can’t go back, so you…

> It seems like such a guide would almost be an inversion of some of the principles in this guide: in troll games, you tend to learn only by dying; the puzzles always require things you forgot in the previous room, and you can’t go back

This guide exists because the inversion was the norm. Especially true of Sierra games, somewhat less true of LucasArts.

Leisure Suit Larry is a prime example of trolling. You die a myriad number of quite humorous ways in order to solve the puzzles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rrh_YBZBC0

> can you create satire that makes sense without knowing what it’s satirizing?

Looking at IWTBTG, I'm sensing the satire is in the game mechanics. Adventure games don't really work that way. They don't have physics or action like Mario, that you could poke fun of. Adventure games work with mouse hovering, clicking, and typing simple phrases. Those mechanics don't really lend themselves to satire, because the game is not really about the mechanics. It's about the logic of puzzles. Which, as Leisure Suit Larry, Kings Quest, etc. all show, satire in adventure games has existed since nearly the beginning. However, even back then the satire was quite meta and self-referential. Take, for example, the Boss Key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_key):

> The first few games in Sierra's Leisure Suit Larry series included a boss key in the pulldown menus (shortcut usually Ctrl+B). However, when this is used, it results in an instantaneous game over with the first game saying "Sorry, but you'll have to restore your game; when you panic, I forget everything!"

Perhaps a better example of this sort of meta-level of messing with adventure game mechanics is the game Eternal Darkness, on the GameCube. They developed this mechanism of a "Sanity meter" and certain effects would occur if your sanity dropped to a certain level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Darkness

> While minor effects include a skewed camera angle, heads of statues following the character, and unsettling noises, stronger effects include bleeding on walls and ceilings, entering a room that is unrealistic before finding that the character never left the previous room, the character suddenly dying, and fourth wall breaking effects such as "To Be Continued" promotions for a "sequel", and simulated errors and anomalies of the TV or GameCube. While the latter does not affect gameplay, they can be misconstrued by the player as being actual technical malfunctions.

Eternal Darkness was not satire, though. They were playing it straight, and when a popup appears telling you to reconnect the GameCube controller, you would really check it and then start questioning your own sanity.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#87

"If I could have my way, I'd design games that were meant to be played in four to five hours. The games would be of the same scope that I currently design, I'd just remove the silly time-wasting puzzles and take the player for an intense ride. The experience they would leave with would be much more entertaining and a lot less frustrating. The games would still be challenging, but not at the expense of the players pat…

Reminds me of Life is Strange, which is a really good "adventure game" btw.

Or "The Pillars of the Earth", or "Heaven's Vault"... As adventure games have been maturing, it is increasingly more difficult to pull off an "old-school" kind of adventure puzzle game; and so, the linked advice piece gets even more relevant for game designers who want to land on the better side of the Sturgeon's Law.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#88

Tangential question, does anyone have any tips for someone who has lost all interest in video games? I used to like them as a teenager and whenever I pick up a game now (I'm in my early 40's) I am just completely bored. Part of it I think is because it requires some form of mental engagement after a day's hard work?

Same. My reasons: 1. I understand software better and can see that my in-game actions are mostly changing variables, or values in a database. 2. Games are 'balanced' and therefore limit the upside for a potential great strategy I might come up with. 3. Nothing new under the sun: How many more pseudo-scifi research trees or weapon mechanisms or unit capabilities am I supposed to learn in my lifetime? 4. They don't mak…

All of that rings true to me. Some will take issue with difficulty (From Software games are still difficult, for example), or balance or whatever. But generally all these rules apply.

The last bit of "magic" I felt was World of Warcraft. Stepping into a world that actually felt like world was an entirely new experience. The game felt alive in a way that no other game has since felt. Years later Blizzard would largely destroy this magic by turning that sense of awe into a grind, and allowing players to fast travel wherever they wanted. The magic of possibility and random encounters disappeared.

Every game since then has paled in comparison. After WoW, you also feel that every moment spent in a game is largely a waste of time. I'm incapable of playing these massive 30-90 hour games that seem to dominate the industry today. Sometimes I pick up Quake for a few quick rounds. But 30+ hours is a solid investment of my incredibly limited time.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#89

Tangential question, does anyone have any tips for someone who has lost all interest in video games? I used to like them as a teenager and whenever I pick up a game now (I'm in my early 40's) I am just completely bored. Part of it I think is because it requires some form of mental engagement after a day's hard work?

The same thing happened to me. In my case, I've basically been in chronic burnout since 2000 because of some poor business and career decisions where I spent too much time working for too little. So every task began to feel like work, and just separated me from what I wanted to do (invent things).

I still can't hardly play video games, but I've been between gigs this last year and have been working with my hands building stuff. That's done more for my psyche than anything, even the self-help reading material that I immersed myself in to recover from burnout, depression and anxiety.

I worry for people living in big cities or around too much technology with no creative outlet. So if you are reading this and thinking "crap I don't even have a garage", try finding a local group into the same stuff you are. I got lucky that there's a local Burning Man group where I live. But there are almost certainly maker spaces or startup enthusiasts somewhere near you. Older folks are surprisingly good at this, so you might get lucky and find a mentor to bounce ideas off of.

I would play video games with any of the interesting people I've met lately. So maybe it's not the games, it's the immediate company.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#90
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is funny, because that would not have been true at the time. Shakespeare was pop culture.

Some big literature classics in Brazil (I suspect other places too, Dickens maybe?) were published as weekly columns on newspapers. Kind of the soap opera of the times. Now they are treated as high brow art, with the good and bad parts of this stereotype (e.g. sophisticated/boring).

Dickens' novels were most definitely compiled from newspapers - that's part of the reason for some unnecessarily verbose sentences
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