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EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

politico.eu

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Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#81

Post by DelightOne »

101404 wrote: post #30
deugtniet wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France developed their own matrix protocol based network called tchap. Great idea for a nation that wants to stay independent in an increasingly american/chinese tech dependent world.

When the government in Germany does IT projects, they usually burn millions of Euros even for simple projects. And then, years after the planned rollout, the project is still unfinished and no politician wants to touch it anymore. My favorites was the "special email inbox for lawyers". So, I am somewhat hesitant to let the EU develop a chat client.

Thats why it should be done like darpa, choosing the best in the end.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#82

Post by jeltz »

mcv wrote: post #39
101404 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the government in Germany does IT projects, they usually burn millions of Euros even for simple projects. And then, years after the planned rollout, the project is still unfinished and no politician wants to touch it anymore. My favorites was the "special email inbox for lawyers". So, I am somewhat hesitant to let the EU develop a chat client.

The Dutch government is also often terrible at managing IT projects. It seems an industry has evolved to game the public procurement rules required by the EU. Those companies just leech money for never-ending IT projects that tend to be over budget, over time, and working poorly.

Having worked at a company in public procurement I would say that matches my experience. I would say we were relatively honest compared to some of our competitors, but there were almost no incentives for us developers to do a good job other than our personal morals and everyone including us were more or less gaming the system.

I hated working there because I felt like a parasite just making the world worse. The in-hosue IT of our customer would probably have done a better job if they had just been allowed to hire some guys instead of having to go through an easily gameable procurement procedure. Not because they would have been more competent, but because they would have not have had perverse incentives.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#83

Post by Anderkent »

heartbeats wrote: post #61
fmajid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is for communications to outsiders, who can't be expected to have an EU-internal app installed on their devices. Signal is reasonably widespread, and probably the best such messaging platform out there, although it has serious issues like the requirement for a phone number.

So why couldn't the EU fund the development of a Signal fork that doesn't need phone numbers?

Why wouldn't EU bureaucrats want to use their phone numbers as the identity?

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#84

Post by pergadad »

Arbalest wrote: post #72

That's a tad unfortunate. Signal was just low profile enough that my wife and I could use it in China. This raises the profile of it just a bit higher than I'd like. Further, with the likes of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110 having a higher profile makes the organisation more vulnerable to harassment from the government.

That's a pretty selfish view. On the other hand such a serious backer means political clout and attention in case there are attempts to compromise it. E.g. Whispers Systems could quickly relocate to Estonia or Germany if US law becomes untenable.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#85

Post by imtringued »

101404 wrote: post #30
deugtniet wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France developed their own matrix protocol based network called tchap. Great idea for a nation that wants to stay independent in an increasingly american/chinese tech dependent world.

When the government in Germany does IT projects, they usually burn millions of Euros even for simple projects. And then, years after the planned rollout, the project is still unfinished and no politician wants to touch it anymore. My favorites was the "special email inbox for lawyers". So, I am somewhat hesitant to let the EU develop a chat client.

I always wonder how these projects can be so expensive. Heck, they are so expensive you could just order two companies to deliver a product and pit them against each other so that there is a strong incentive to deliver a working product.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#86

Post by pergadad »

fmajid wrote: post #60
Zenst wrote: post #11

I'm supprised they have not developed their own or at least, bankrolled the development of one via grants. Though it would be good if there was an open source communications platform that would allow the public to engage with politicians in a formal and constructive way. Alas, so much disparity in solutions that it often irks me. https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/projects Be great if the interface was bet…

This is for communications to outsiders, who can't be expected to have an EU-internal app installed on their devices. Signal is reasonably widespread, and probably the best such messaging platform out there, although it has serious issues like the requirement for a phone number.

I've read it requires a phone number so that it does not need to collect or store any (other) data on users.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#87

Post by j7ake »

jeltz wrote: post #82
mcv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch government is also often terrible at managing IT projects. It seems an industry has evolved to game the public procurement rules required by the EU. Those companies just leech money for never-ending IT projects that tend to be over budget, over time, and working poorly.

Having worked at a company in public procurement I would say that matches my experience. I would say we were relatively honest compared to some of our competitors, but there were almost no incentives for us developers to do a good job other than our personal morals and everyone including us were more or less gaming the system. I hated working there because I felt like a parasite just making the world worse. The in-ho…

This story is fascinating, do you know where I can read more about public procurement?

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#88

Post by dependenttypes »

xmdx wrote: post #43
Zenst wrote: post #11

I'm supprised they have not developed their own or at least, bankrolled the development of one via grants. Though it would be good if there was an open source communications platform that would allow the public to engage with politicians in a formal and constructive way. Alas, so much disparity in solutions that it often irks me. https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/projects Be great if the interface was bet…

Why reinvent the wheel? Signal does the job, doesn't store data, not even metadata, and can be used immediately.

> doesn't store data, not even metadata

Isn't that just a promise? Also, even then, it is based on your contacts, which are seen by google.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#89

Post by honestoHeminway »

hestefisk wrote: post #51

I know Signal is secure and all — and I use it myself — but I can’t help but think how can we trusted that the central servers aren’t wiretapped? It would be the ultimate proof of security if one could transparently verify that the middle man is running the actual code it claims to be running.

Decentralization would proof a lot more.

Re: EU Commission to staff: Switch to Signal messaging app

#90

Post by pergadad »

tadzik_ wrote: post #49
cpbotha wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal servers only know who talked to whom, but otherwise are physically not able to see even a smattering of the contents of the communication. Correction: The signal servers don't even have that bit of metadata. See [1], they only store the last time that a user connected to the server. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Servers

Signal app is also canonically distributed by Google Play/Apple Store, which are US entities under US law. When push comes to shove, an app update may get distributed to select individuals that will happily gather and send all their conversation histories and more. As an EU citizen, I'm half puzzled and half horrified at how happy the EU institutions are to rely on foreign products: especially coming from a country t…

What's the alternative? Private closed-source apps like Threema?

This also is not for official communication , it's just for any case where staff would currently use WhatsApp or similar spyware.

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