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IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

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Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#81

Post by rbanffy »

blub wrote: post #65
rbanffy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain those issues?

The issues are quite noticeable for someone that isn't heavily invested in web apps. Most of HN is - and that's why they prefer to ignore them. But let's look at the market... Have web apps displaced desktop apps? No. Have they displaced mobile apps (as per HN mantra 90% of iPhone apps could be web apps)? Not even close. Now why is this? It's because web apps offer a significantly poorer user experience across the bo…

> 1. Web apps are using a text-transfer protocol with a pile of hacks on top to make it stateful. To this day engineers are still working on solving this problem (web sockets, web sql, etc). They can't solve it.

I am curious - why would the protocol need to be stateful? What are you trying to accomplish?

> 2. One does not own web apps, one merely rents them.

No. You can buy apps and host them on your own servers, on your own PCs.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#82

Post by jlongster »

tmgrhm wrote: post #70
jlongster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for Mozilla, and we are watching Chrome. It's just not the right time to campaign against Chrome. Chrome is only eating away from IE's market share, and IE 9 could attract a lot of non-techie users. Adopting a process-per-tab model is currently being implemented ( https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis ), and I imagine once that's done we will be discussing Chrome a lot more.

"Chrome is only eating away from IE's market share" Really? I'd love to see some sources on that, because I know of dozens of people who've switched from Firefox to Chrome. Obviously I wasn't suggesting you weren't watching Chrome at all, but it's good to hear you're making the right decisions in competing with Chrome (primarily the reduction of Firefox's inherent clunkiness and slowness).

Firefox has stayed around the 30% mark of browser share, and there's an obvious connection between the steady IE drop and Chrome gain.

http://gs.statcounter.com/

There's been several articles about this:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=egsisas&xhr=t&#3...

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#83

Post by pcwalton »

phatbyte wrote: post #52

The funny thing is, while as a web developer I hate with all my guts fighting IE standards(?), I also hate how Firefox (yes even version 4) is a memory hog. It's unbearable to work with it consuming 700mb to 1Gb of memory, with just a few tabs and firebug on. Chrome(webkit) on the other side, wins both of these two combined any time of day. Mozilla, you have come a long away, you created history when you came out wit…

Do you have steps to reproduce the huge RAM consumption by any chance (which sites do you have open, which OS)? I'm very interested in solving these kinds of performance issues in the product.

And for the record, I wish Paul Rouget hadn't posted this. IE9 is a great browser - they do some things better than us, even (text-overflow, SVG acceleration via D2D, out-of-process tabs), and we should recognize this.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#84

Post by blub »

samlevine wrote: post #78
blub wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issues are quite noticeable for someone that isn't heavily invested in web apps. Most of HN is - and that's why they prefer to ignore them. But let's look at the market... Have web apps displaced desktop apps? No. Have they displaced mobile apps (as per HN mantra 90% of iPhone apps could be web apps)? Not even close. Now why is this? It's because web apps offer a significantly poorer user experience across the bo…

Irony: using a web app to suggest that web apps haven't displaced any native apps.

The fact that three people consider HN to be an application is nothing short of mind-boggling. I guess if this is the case, I've been doing webapps since before HN was even invented. We used to call them web sites back then though...

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#85

Post by poink »

blub wrote: post #65
rbanffy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain those issues?

The issues are quite noticeable for someone that isn't heavily invested in web apps. Most of HN is - and that's why they prefer to ignore them. But let's look at the market... Have web apps displaced desktop apps? No. Have they displaced mobile apps (as per HN mantra 90% of iPhone apps could be web apps)? Not even close. Now why is this? It's because web apps offer a significantly poorer user experience across the bo…

2. One does not own web apps, one merely rents them.

One does not own native apps, one merely licenses them.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#86

Post by bryanlarsen »

phatbyte wrote: post #52

The funny thing is, while as a web developer I hate with all my guts fighting IE standards(?), I also hate how Firefox (yes even version 4) is a memory hog. It's unbearable to work with it consuming 700mb to 1Gb of memory, with just a few tabs and firebug on. Chrome(webkit) on the other side, wins both of these two combined any time of day. Mozilla, you have come a long away, you created history when you came out wit…

My experience is the reverse. I recently stopped using Chrome and switched back to Firefox 3.6 because Chrome was using over 3 gigabytes of memory with about 40 tabs open. (40 tabs sounds like a lot until you realize that no single workspace of my 10 active ones had more than 10 tabs).

With Firefox I've had over 100 tabs open simultaneously.

Love/hate with Firebug, though. I can't work without it, but it does eat a lot of memory and slow things down.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#87

Post by phatbyte »

Retric wrote: post #75
phatbyte wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Algorithms are for people who don't know how to buy RAM." - no idea who wrote this

"The secret to happiness is running software on a better computer than the dev who created it." -me

that just shows how bad developers are out there

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#88

Post by yuhong »

alanh wrote: post #17
fungi wrote: post #11

> What's missing in IE9? ... text-shadow ... CSS3 Gradients ... border-image ... really? MS wont even support frikken text shadows? ffs ms. don't ship the fucking thing then, just take your time and get it right, please don't break everything again, my life is to short. what did i do to you to make you hate me so :(

The craziest thing about it is they removed the old `filter` hacks for (bad, but hey) text shadows without replacing them with their modern CSS3 equivalent. (I should clarify: I mean in IE9’s IE9 mode, naturally.)

filter was renamed -ms-filter and the syntax was changed in IE8.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#89

Post by alanh »

yuhong wrote: post #88
alanh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The craziest thing about it is they removed the old `filter` hacks for (bad, but hey) text shadows without replacing them with their modern CSS3 equivalent. (I should clarify: I mean in IE9’s IE9 mode, naturally.)

filter was renamed -ms-filter and the syntax was changed in IE8.

I know. But neither works in IE9 standards mode.
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