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James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

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Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#81

Post by Devagamster »

bitexploder wrote: post #77
keanzu wrote: post #55

Perhaps it might have been possible in some long distant past to underestimate Elon Musk and write him off as a crazy person. That time is gone. If Musk appears to be doing something crazy you've not understood it. > It’s crazy, completely crazy. Elon Musk has read too much science fiction. He got carried away with it. If I were in his position, I would not waste my fortune on colonizing Mars. And all they would lear…

Not only that, but the cynic in my says... what SHOULD you be spending your billions on? Carefully grabbing more billions and political influence/power so you can have more influence/power? Or, you know, try to make humanity better?

I'm not sure Mars is the most effective way to make humanity better with your billions

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#82

Post by kaliali »

Musk putting his fortune on the line and trying colonize Mars offers a win-win for everyone.

If people want to keep expanding as well as having more individual freedoms, we must get ourselves more room and resources.

If environmentalists want to keep planet Earth safe, having a place to send people and begin colonizing off-planet will in the long-term be best for Earth.

Lovelock is too close-minded in this case. Staying on Earth forever means the death of the human race and most likely the Earth's environment.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#83

Post by sulam »

silvester23 wrote: post #51
agentultra wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it as sarcasm and cynicism. For someone at 100 years of age and having been involved in several environmental movements it can be exhausting to think of another protest failing. I suspect he'd like it to work but seems more interested in folks making the politicians pay attention by other means.

That's almost diametrically opposed to "politicians should just ignore the protests", though.

I think his point is that if you just follow protests then you are always going to be onto the next thing. Protests are largely fads. He says they should just get their heads straight -- IOW, fight against climate change simply because it's the right thing to do, whether people are protesting about it this year or not.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#85

Post by toomuchtodo »

Devagamster wrote: post #81
bitexploder wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but the cynic in my says... what SHOULD you be spending your billions on? Carefully grabbing more billions and political influence/power so you can have more influence/power? Or, you know, try to make humanity better?

I'm not sure Mars is the most effective way to make humanity better with your billions

The tools you'd need on Mars are: Electric mobility and energy storage, launch vehicles to cheaply lift satellite constellations to Earth orbit (which just so happen to heavy lift what you need for a Mars transit), cheap tunnel boring to reduce transportation congestion on Earth, but also to build underground (radiation protected) habitats on Mars.

If you have a hobby you love (go to Mars, die on Mars), it doesn't hurt to get rich building the infra your hobby needs. You will need those funds to buy services from your companies for your hobby.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#86

Post by est31 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #66
keanzu wrote: post #55

Perhaps it might have been possible in some long distant past to underestimate Elon Musk and write him off as a crazy person. That time is gone. If Musk appears to be doing something crazy you've not understood it. > It’s crazy, completely crazy. Elon Musk has read too much science fiction. He got carried away with it. If I were in his position, I would not waste my fortune on colonizing Mars. And all they would lear…

JFK sold us on space because "we choose to do these things because they are hard." It was an aspirational exploratory message. The reality is that we are in space because it is required for great power contests. I'm mired in space as a DoD executive, so I promise you space - at least inside the GEO orbits - is extremely practical. Starlink is honestly amazing. Mars though? I've steel-manned that one and I don't see i…

The US federal government owns roughly a quarter of the US territory and most of it can't really be utilized for something. Technology to terraform it into arable land would unlock tremendous value.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#87

Post by londons_explore »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #66
keanzu wrote: post #55

Perhaps it might have been possible in some long distant past to underestimate Elon Musk and write him off as a crazy person. That time is gone. If Musk appears to be doing something crazy you've not understood it. > It’s crazy, completely crazy. Elon Musk has read too much science fiction. He got carried away with it. If I were in his position, I would not waste my fortune on colonizing Mars. And all they would lear…

JFK sold us on space because "we choose to do these things because they are hard." It was an aspirational exploratory message. The reality is that we are in space because it is required for great power contests. I'm mired in space as a DoD executive, so I promise you space - at least inside the GEO orbits - is extremely practical. Starlink is honestly amazing. Mars though? I've steel-manned that one and I don't see i…

There could be strategic military advantages to having people on Mars.

Nuclear mutual assured destruction doesn't work if one side has a base on mars, where it would take 6+ months for any fired nuke to arrive.

Having people in spacecraft could be a good place for high-importance leaders - nearly no bunker is nuke-proof, but a spacecraft far away is far harder to hit.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#88

Post by jfengel »

Razengan wrote: post #50

I had never even heard of a “James Lovelock” before now, and after skimming the comments here, my desire to know about him went from zero to negative. On the subject of Mars etc., how are billionaires, especially the older ones, not already bored with all that Earth has to offer? Surely they must have experienced everything, natural and manmade, and crave for something more than the accumulation of wealth by now.

What Lovelock is suggesting that if Musk wants a challenge, he should try to fix this planet. Instead of seeking a challenge in brand new, clean space for him and a few extremely lucky individuals, how about saving the planet for seven billion of them?

I think Lovelock is missing that Musk is also doing some of that -- he thinks that electricity storage is the key. I suspect Lovelock knows that -- the "Mars" and "Musk" aspects are a tiny fragment of the interview, and perhaps if he'd elaborated he's have talked more about that. Lovelock is right that there's much more to do, though.

Musk is perhaps understandably self-centered in that he wants his adventure to include a clean-sheet planet, an adventure open to humans for most of history until the last century or so. There are lots of adventures here, but they're messier and harder, and it's not as if Musk is opting completely out of them. So I think Lovelock is partly on the mark and partly off it, and I think it's a mistake for the headline to focus on that one tiny part of the interview.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#89

Post by rubidium »

wrsh07 wrote: post #80
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JFK sold us on space because "we choose to do these things because they are hard." It was an aspirational exploratory message. The reality is that we are in space because it is required for great power contests. I'm mired in space as a DoD executive, so I promise you space - at least inside the GEO orbits - is extremely practical. Starlink is honestly amazing. Mars though? I've steel-manned that one and I don't see i…

Is that true of nuclear winter or a major impact event? Wouldn't either of those render the Earth temporarily uninhabitable? Is the argument that it would be easy enough to build on Earth places to survive such events rather than going to Mars?

A massive, underground biodome would be cheaper and easier.

Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'

#90

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

skellera wrote: post #63
keanzu wrote: post #55

Perhaps it might have been possible in some long distant past to underestimate Elon Musk and write him off as a crazy person. That time is gone. If Musk appears to be doing something crazy you've not understood it. > It’s crazy, completely crazy. Elon Musk has read too much science fiction. He got carried away with it. If I were in his position, I would not waste my fortune on colonizing Mars. And all they would lear…

I wouldn’t say marketing is his skill. His skill is getting shit done. The only reason why we listen to his (crazy) words is because he actually does what he sets out to do.

For getting shit done you need to market your ideas well to right people who work and who give out the capital. If you don't inspire them, you won't get anything done.
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