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How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

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Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#81

Post by aasasd »

thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

> the USA is the greatest country in the world

> and democracy is the way to go

Democracy = USA? Hmmm, didn't know that.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#82

Post by surewhynat »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #42
ianai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of sad the text is gone for lack of reference. You nailed it on the nose.

It's not gone, just dead. You can enable viewing dead posts on your profile (but I really do not recommend it; they're dead for a reason).

I enabled it to read what it said, and there wasn't anything all that pro Russia in there...

The main point was that the United States has invaded a lot of countries since 1949, and currently occupies a lot of those territories.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#84

Post by surewhynat »

ianai wrote: post #69
thdrdt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what you are trying to say? Do you think the base of my argument is false? If so it would be helpful to point out why you think it is.

I already did.

Can you please point out where you think it is flawed. Constructive criticism can lead to truth, so, if you disagree you should state so, but, also state why you disagree so that there can be a discussion.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#85

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

nexuist wrote: post #64
dr_dshiv wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's really sad. Iran had/has so much potential.

In that regard, the current offensive action may as well be viewed as a breath of fresh air. If blood must be shed to end tyranny, perhaps it is a worthwhile gamble. The Iranian people gain nothing from allowing the current regime to grow. A US-Iran war would almost certainly result in a democratic Iran, with a connected and educated populace capable of maintaining it. I think one of the main flaws in Iraq and Afghan…

Taliban is strong as ever and totally outplayed Americans, who are leaving and pretty much officially giving them over the power. Kabul is An American city state.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#86

Post by alamaslah »

thdrdt wrote: post #22
ianai wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you assess the POV of someone under a regime of control and propaganda from dictators or tyrants? Assume they’re suffering and just hoping for a better tomorrow and you might be wrong. Hostages are known to grow emotions for their captors, after all. And outside attacks on groups lead to in-group insulation and doubling down on beliefs. Studying cultists has shown this trend. So I don’t know. One thing a lot o…

What if you are under a regime without healthcare, loads of homeless people, extreme border patrol and police, and all you hear is that it's the land of opportunities where you can make it? The above might sound unfair but think about it. I believe there is propaganda in almost every country. And when oil is gone there will be something else. Probably Artificial Intelligence. Also check out a current trending item in…

"the land of opportunities where you can make it"

The above is old propaganda. It was true. It is becoming less and less true.

The things you listed are all connected.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#87

Post by Youden »

thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

> Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'.

As a resident of Europe, I don't think that's accurate. I think there are negative views of these countries in the west but I think the negativity is _much_ stronger in the US than the rest of the west.

Personally I find the US itself to be a much bigger problem than any of these countries and it seems I'm definitely not alone [0].

[0]: https://fullfact.org/news/america-world-peace/

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#88

Post by Const-me »

surewhynat wrote: post #77
Const-me wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is occupying the Crimean Oblast within Ukraine Russia also occupying parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. > many Russians were not satisfied with the resulting situation, including Russians living in Crimea Pre-war sociology shows 38% of Crimean residents wanted to join Russia, that number declining over time: https://www.km.ru/world/2012/09/14/polozhenie-russkoyazychno... (Russian). 38% is indeed many people, but…

This thread is not about Ukraine, but, if we must ... The protests in Kiev and other cities were violent and out of control. Ukraine was 6 months away from an election which they could have normally voted out their president, but, the people overthrew the government instead. Since then, the country has been so much worse off economically and socially. People have barely any money to pay their gas bills or buy luxury…

> were violent and out of control

Technically that’s true, but it’s important to remember the protest was peaceful for couple months. Then police started the violence. People have a right of self-defense.

> the country has been so much worse off economically and socially

Despite Ukraine have been fighting Russian army for almost 5 years now, what you’re saying is not true: https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita-ppp

> one of the lowest of any countries in the world

Not true. Ukraine is near the median, doing better than India or Philippines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP...

> which is why they began their separatist movement which led to its current civil war

Neither of that is true. The “separatists” for the “separatists movement” were Russian military personnel or special forces. The war ain’t civil, there’re tons of factual evidence of direct Russian army involvement.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#89

Post by jessaustin »

viraptor wrote: post #78
nexuist wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that regard, the current offensive action may as well be viewed as a breath of fresh air. If blood must be shed to end tyranny, perhaps it is a worthwhile gamble. The Iranian people gain nothing from allowing the current regime to grow. A US-Iran war would almost certainly result in a democratic Iran, with a connected and educated populace capable of maintaining it. I think one of the main flaws in Iraq and Afghan…

> A US-Iran war would almost certainly result in a democratic Iran Where does that certainty come from? It's not like the US is known for finishing wars recently.

The last war USA "won" was WWII. For all that we spend on it, and for as many innocents as it destroys, our military cannot accomplish objectives that benefit the national interest. Which isn't surprising, because it has been optimized to waste resources, not to win.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#90

Post by jessaustin »

lowdose wrote: post #60
AtlasLion wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most people living outside the USA are very negative about the United States because this president is a very "bad guy"" That's a very simplistic view of people outside the USA. Unlike US news that do no mention US proxy wars, veto votes and the like, other countries are well aware of US foreign policy and the terror it brings with it, be it in south America, Africa, the middle east or elsewhere.

Off course my opinion is based on a very selective draw during traveling to many countries. However the conversation has been trending more and more negative on the United States topic and it's form of "democracy". Noam Chomsky has written elaborate on corporatism and i think this POTUS function as an amplifier. I argue people are not bad informed but do generalize bad malpractice elements of the USA to all Americans…

The current president was not president in 1953. He didn't create our horrible policies, and they certainly won't be changed when he leaves office. Many Americans are just as confused about this as some non-Americans may be.
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