Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#81

Post by pepijndevos » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 11:55 AM UTC

I find it difficult to evaluate an Android for my phone. Currently running AOSP (actually phh-treble) rather than any fork that adds any significant features.

In particular it's hard to tell if any particular fork is just a one man hobby project, a fork of a fork, or has any significant work behind it.

Of course the big one is LineageOS, but they seem to make specific phone images, mostly for high-end phones, rather than generic system images for my low-end phone.

The list of generic system images is extremely long and not all that helpful: https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/wiki/Gen...

I ended up chosing phh-treble because it doesn't add any BS, promises quick updates, and serves as a base for many other roms, lending it some reliability. It's pretty much AOSP with hardware fixes.

That said, it doesn't do some pretty basic things like automatic brightness and night mode, or a PIN timeout. So maybe that's eventually drive me to try another ROM...

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#82

Post by mirimir » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

Narishma wrote: post #74

mirimir wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, GPU. But do phones have gaming-level GPU? So what do phones normally do with their CPU?

The same things PCs do with their CPUs and GPUs. There are no differences here. The video decoder is part of the SoC, along with the CPU, GPU, memory controller and tons of other stuff.

What I'm getting at is that single-user machines that host multiple VMs don't actually use much more CPU than they would if they ran what the VMs in aggregate are running.

The main difference, from a resource usage perspective, is that each VM needs RAM. I typically run at least two pfSense router VMs as VPN gateways. They use about 600MB each. And the Debian VM that I'm writing this in uses about 2.4GB. Most of that's used by the browser. But CPU usage is only about 10% of four 3GHz i5 cores.

But if I stream some video, or download a torrent, all three VMs use more CPU. Altogether maybe 50%-60% CPU. That's because there are thee OpenVPN instances (one in the host, and one in each pfSense VM) encoding/decoding traffic.

Even so, I doubt that it'd be all that different if there were no VMs, and the host was doing all that. In other words, I don't think that the VirtualBox overhead is all that high.

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#83

Post by mirimir » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #66

hyperpallium wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're aware of http://termux.com ? It's effectively a linux distribution for android (with a large repository of packages), that uses the existing android kernel. So no rooting required, and has the power efficiency of android.

Does it provide tools to lock down GPS and WiFi-based geolocation? And turn off scanning WiFi APs? Just allow manual selection. Also, can you flash firmware? Maybe wipe the GPS firmware? Oh, and can you mess with the baseband? Edit: I asked in the Termux Wiki.

I got some helpful answers from Termux GitHub issues:

mirimir> I'd like to totally lock down the GPS chip.

xeffyr> Not without root and some actions will be device-specific.

mirimir> I'd also like to turn off WiFi-based geolocation.

xeffyr> Android settings isn't enough ? Or you think the settings are no-op ? In such case delete the Google Play services immediately.

mirimir> And totally prevent sharing of location data, anywhere outside the device.

xeffyr> Disassemble your device and cut the all antennas and optionally USB port.

mirimir> I'd like to turn off scanning of WiFi APs.

xeffyr> Again - go to Android settings and turn off.

mirimir> And just connect manually to a private AP

xeffyr> Impossible if previous 2 points are performed.

mirimir> for connectivity via nested VPN chains.

xeffyr> You really think that VPN chain is more secure than just 1 VPN ? From encryption side it is but you forgot about side-channel attacks. Time (worldwide) and connection metadata are your enemy here.

mirimir> If possible, I'd like to disable or wipe the GPS and baseband firmware.

xeffyr> Find the right block device in /dev/block then fill it with zeros. Example: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p8.

xeffyr> Some devices do not expose the baseband block device or have it in permanent RO mode.

xeffyr> GPS can be completely disabled by recompiling kernel without its drivers + modifying init.rc scripts in ramdisk to disable gpsd service.

mirimir> And then use an external WiFi router or cellular modem/router.

xeffyr> Good luck with modifying Android OS framework. It does not natively support external wifi or cellular modem.

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#84

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #73

ummwhat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you read this too literally. I want a device which acts like a phone in my pocket and acts like a desktop when plugged into a screen/mouse/keyboard. The perfect unison of essentials like ride-sharing with the ability to do serious work. It doesn't have to be /e/.

As others have suggested, Samsung DeX does this. I was forced to use it for a while when my laptop was broken. My older Galaxy S8 required buying a DeX Station to make it work, but that includes some USB ports that let me plug in external hard drives and even my Focusrite Scarlett audio interface for connecting my studio speakers. I used Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, but it also worked with USB. For simple HTML editi…

Samsung DeX is no more, Samsung has decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

https://9to5google.com/2019/10/18/samsung-discontinues-linux...

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#85

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

thawaway1837 wrote: post #54

ummwhat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you read this too literally. I want a device which acts like a phone in my pocket and acts like a desktop when plugged into a screen/mouse/keyboard. The perfect unison of essentials like ride-sharing with the ability to do serious work. It doesn't have to be /e/.

Isn’t that basically Samsung Dex

Samsung Dex is dead, the project was canceled.

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#86

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #76

IIAOPSW wrote: post #11

This is exactly what I've wanted phones to become for years. It honestly amazes / pisses me off that I can't buy something like this off the shelf. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and piss away a few hours on rom flashing to get /e/ on my phone.

You have been able to buy attempts for multiple years, e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Webtop - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_DeX - Ubuntu's convergence attempts - https://maruos.com/ and probably many more (e.g. the Nokia N900 was already more of a laptop than a phone). However, all of them flopped for being too inconvenient (needing…

Most likely because 2-1 hybrid laptops are a much more convenient way of approaching this workflow, with more powerful devices to drive the whole system.

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#87

Post by Joeri » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

mdturnerphys wrote: post #45

IIAOPSW wrote: post #11

This is exactly what I've wanted phones to become for years. It honestly amazes / pisses me off that I can't buy something like this off the shelf. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and piss away a few hours on rom flashing to get /e/ on my phone.

Windows 10 phones did this. I had a small docking station for my Lumia 950 that had USB ports and a display port. It worked pretty well. (Disclaimer: I'm a Microsoft employee and the phone and docking station were both given to me.)

I tried this out with a lumia 950 myself. I could turn my windows laptop into keyboard, display and mouse for my phone. It worked well enough, with the browser and mail client using the larger screen well, sufficient to be a sort of chrome os equivalent.

However, after using it, I don’t think this is actually a useful feature. It is cool, but I found no practical use for it because my laptop could do all the same things better. I think it only makes sense if you have no other computing device, but still somehow have invested in a keyboard, display, mouse and dock setup. I don’t know who that mythical person is, but it definitely wasn’t me.

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#88

Post by SyneRyder » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #84

SyneRyder wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have suggested, Samsung DeX does this. I was forced to use it for a while when my laptop was broken. My older Galaxy S8 required buying a DeX Station to make it work, but that includes some USB ports that let me plug in external hard drives and even my Focusrite Scarlett audio interface for connecting my studio speakers. I used Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, but it also worked with USB. For simple HTML editi…

Samsung DeX is no more, Samsung has decided it wasn't worth the trouble. https://9to5google.com/2019/10/18/samsung-discontinues-linux...

Linux On DeX was something different. It was a way to run a virtualised Linux distribution on Samsung phones.

DeX is still around and lets you run Android as a full desktop environment by plugging your phone into an HDMI screen.

https://www.samsung.com/us/explore/dex/

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#89

Post by lostmsu » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #82

Narishma wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same things PCs do with their CPUs and GPUs. There are no differences here. The video decoder is part of the SoC, along with the CPU, GPU, memory controller and tons of other stuff.

What I'm getting at is that single-user machines that host multiple VMs don't actually use much more CPU than they would if they ran what the VMs in aggregate are running. The main difference, from a resource usage perspective, is that each VM needs RAM. I typically run at least two pfSense router VMs as VPN gateways. They use about 600MB each. And the Debian VM that I'm writing this in uses about 2.4GB. Most of that…

There is something wrong with your setup, as 3x encrypted video streams should not take that much CPU, and neither should video decoding.

Re: Using an /e/ phone as a desktop or laptop

#90

Post by roywiggins » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #85

thawaway1837 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that basically Samsung Dex

Samsung Dex is dead, the project was canceled.

The Samsung/Ubuntu project is dead, but Dex seems to be going okay, they just rolled it out to the Fold.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-finally-adds-DeX-suppo...

Android 10 can apparently be coaxed into something like a desktop experience if you have the right phone. It's at least possible Android 11 will have a proper desktop mode built in, but I suppose I'm not holding my breath.

https://www.xda-developers.com/make-android-10-desktop-mode-...