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The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

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Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#81

Post by frickinLasers »

snowedin wrote: post #69

I posted this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction. It's a serious question. Isn't Snowden's book an auto-biographical memoir? Given this, is there really classified information contained in the book? Can someone who has read it give an example? I've watched Snowden's Rogan interview, where he covers the material in the book, and I don't remember anything that was classified.

There is definitely some sensitive information in there. The government doesn't distinguish between classified information that is public knowledge, and still-secret classified information.

Regardless, their point is that Snowden did not send the book in for approval/redaction before publishing, as would be required of any former employee of a three-letter agency writing about such things.

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#82

Post by mywittyname »

rhacker wrote: post #17

It would be cool to see this go second hand by a fan. A fan that could buy up all the copies at a bulk rate (say $2 for 1M copies) Then re-sell those at the original price. Since it's now a used book, that fan could donate the profit to the original author, whoever that is.

Found a company to sell the books under, found another company ostensibly owned by Snowden and domiciled in another country to operate as a shell. Grant the shell company special shares of the parent company entitling the shell company exclusive rights to dividends, and funnel profits through the American parent company, to the shell and into a bank account which distributes the proceeds to various accounts all of the world.

The government is happy to enable such actions for the wealthy plutocrats of the world. So why not use such a loophole to undermine their ability sanction individuals.

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#84

Post by [deleted] »

soulofmischief wrote: post #72
onetimemanytime wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a free speech case at all. He said all he wanted. The book is out and anyone can buy, just the person that broke the legal agreement (not to share the classified stuff he learned in books without prior clearance) will not make money of that info. Otherwise anyone can do a few years in jail and then make $x million by telling what he saw while working for CIA/NSA etc.

Cases like these should be protected with whistleblower laws. Legislation encouraging whistleblowing is a good thing.

[deleted]

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#85

Post by rhacker »

mywittyname wrote: post #80
rhacker wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EOs shouldn't be able affect that.

Unfortunately, our inept Congress decided over the years to cede so much of their governing ability to the president. I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but my understanding is that executive authority is quite vast and grows each year.

I mean yeah, they might be able to arrest someone. The unfortunate aspect is that it is now up to the arrested person to tell the judge that they were arrested because of an executive order which only applies to the rules that govern federal agencies - and that they, and higher courts alone can overturn that order (or the act of arrest due to the order).

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#86

Post by [deleted] »

jedimastert wrote: post #43
rhacker wrote: post #17

It would be cool to see this go second hand by a fan. A fan that could buy up all the copies at a bulk rate (say $2 for 1M copies) Then re-sell those at the original price. Since it's now a used book, that fan could donate the profit to the original author, whoever that is.

I get the feeling that sending Edward Snowden a bunch of money would at least be cause for concern, if not actually illegal. I know "bitcoin" and all that, but if you're goal is to find some sort of legal loophole I don't think this is it.

[deleted]

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#87

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

bigwavedave wrote: post #64
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's counterproductive from a security standpoint. From what kind of twisted security standpoint is it counterproductive to allow someone to reveal mass security violations? I don't think it is useful to participate in the newspeak that authoritarians use to pretend that you are somehow more secure when your human rights are constantly being violated.

This has nothing to do with preventing the reveal of mass security violations and everything to do with laws put in place to disincentivize bad actors who are in a position of trust from profiting from the leaking of state secrets. However you try to spin things, this is exactly what happened. Snowden was in a position of trust, leaked all kinds of state secrets, and then tried to profit from that leak.

> This has nothing to do with preventing the reveal of mass security violations and everything to do with laws put in place to disincentivize bad actors who are in a position of trust from profiting from the leaking of state secrets.

So, why is it then that these laws do apply here? Is that just incompetence on the part of those who wrote those laws? Because, you know, if it wasn't, then your claim that this was not a goal of these laws is a bit unfounded.

Plus, the fact that these laws still haven't been changed to protect whistleblowers really completely invalidates even the possibility that this is just incompetence. All those people who would be in the position to change that law know about Snowden, and nothing has happened. That is not what an honest mistake looks like.

> However you try to spin things, this is exactly what happened.

So?

> Snowden was in a position of trust, leaked all kinds of state secrets, and then tried to profit from that leak.

So?

Why is it that you feel the need to defend these abuses? To grasp for these straws of plausible deniability? Why is it so hard to see this for what it is: Systematic human rights abuses and violation of the law with other laws that protect the abusers and punish those who reveal the abuse. Why is this law that protects the abusers so much more important than the laws these abusers broke and break? How can it possibly be just to uphold the law against the whistleblower while at the same time letting the abusers continue to break the laws they don't like?

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#88

Post by irq11 »

soulofmischief wrote: post #72
onetimemanytime wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a free speech case at all. He said all he wanted. The book is out and anyone can buy, just the person that broke the legal agreement (not to share the classified stuff he learned in books without prior clearance) will not make money of that info. Otherwise anyone can do a few years in jail and then make $x million by telling what he saw while working for CIA/NSA etc.

Cases like these should be protected with whistleblower laws. Legislation encouraging whistleblowing is a good thing.

Cases like these are protected by whistleblower laws. But you can’t just leak stuff, call yourself a whistleblower and claim immunity from prosecution.

Factually, objectively, Snowden didn’t even try to use the law. (HN voters will immediately censor via downvote any comment that points this out, of course.)

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#89

Post by snapetom »

jstanley wrote: post #61
snapetom wrote: post #58

Playing Devil's Advocate, the Feds are going after Snowden not on the premise of censoring him. Instead, they are arguing that as part of his employment agreement, they have the right to vet anything IP related he publicly discloses. It's similar to many employer-employee relationships. I've had to pass my slide deck to my manager to screen before speaking at conferences and many companies have an officially sanction…

Have you read the book? It's more like an autobiography than a spilling of secrets. There's nothing in the book about CIA or NSA operations that isn't already public knowledge.

Admittedly I haven't read it. Are the operations information in the book from his leaks?

Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits

#90

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

disintegore wrote: post #70
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise anyone can do a few years in jail and then make $x million by telling what he saw while working for CIA/NSA etc. Why do you think that the only two alternatives is to allow people to sell secrets to foreign governments and sell revelations about illegal actions of the state or to punish both in the same way? Why do you think it is impossible to distinguish those two cases?

I think his point is that the law is being applied consistently. If Snowden received a pardon (and he absolutely unarguably should) this would not be problem.

For one, the law is not being applied consistently. The abusers are still not in jail. Rather, the abuse is still going on, still breaking the law.

But also, actually, it would be a problem, because the law would still be broken, because the law still systematically protects the abusers. What is needed is a change to the unjust law, not some exception for someone who highlighted that that is what it is.

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