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Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

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Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#81

Post by mvanbaak »

In my opinion, the article is wrong. Yes, if you get a mac with activation lock enabled, from someone who is not the person who can disable it, YOU are wrong. Recyclers etc should simply educate their staff to ask and validate that activation lock/find my is disabled.

Here in .nl when you go to trade in your used phone, they ask, they check, and they tell you how to do it (they go all the way though the process until the step where you have to confirm, and they let the soon-to-be-ex-owner confirm the reset) before they even accept the phone. The person who wrote the article should stop blaming the wrong party in this 'problem'. It's not up to apple to unlock (or create a backdoor that will render the feature worthless) the devices, but the party that accepts the devices for recycling/resale.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#82

Post by mvanbaak »

293984j29384 wrote: post #70
meddlin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Simply no. What is stopping a "criminal" from bypassing this activation lock? Time and technical ability? It surely isn't legal recourse or fear of losing the device. It's a matter of time before this is moot. On top of that, I've left "criminal" in quotes because quite frankly, I don't care if Apple claims breaking this lock is a breach of DMCA, ToS, or anything else. I've paid for the device. It's mine. The dat…

While I agree with the overall idea behind your post, your assumption that the activation lock can be defeated by sheer git and determination is silly. If implemented correctly (and I have no idea if it will be) it's very likely that it won't be bypassed.

If there's a way to bypass it, it will be used. By the authorized recyclers as well as the thieves (including government agencies).

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#83

Post by kstrauser »

AWildC182 wrote: post #75
rrdharan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Device theft isn't that big of an issue. On what basis are you making this claim? At least for phones, activation locks had a noticeable impact on reducing device theft (which was rampant for a while earlier in the smartphone era and a real public safety concern in cities). https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-lea...

I'm making that claim on a personal basis. I've never had a device stolen and I know of exactly one such incident with a person I know. I just don't consider it a problem that trumps right to repair and if you do, I hope apple starts potting their devices in epoxy.

Two of my coworkers in the room with me right now have had their phones stolen. I know that's just as anecdotal as your story, but I assure you that phones are stolen. Less so now that activation lock ruins much of their value, thankfully.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#84

Post by eschaton »

AWildC182 wrote: post #75
rrdharan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Device theft isn't that big of an issue. On what basis are you making this claim? At least for phones, activation locks had a noticeable impact on reducing device theft (which was rampant for a while earlier in the smartphone era and a real public safety concern in cities). https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-lea...

I'm making that claim on a personal basis. I've never had a device stolen and I know of exactly one such incident with a person I know. I just don't consider it a problem that trumps right to repair and if you do, I hope apple starts potting their devices in epoxy.

“I don’t believe the data because of a couple anecdotes.”

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#85

Post by kstrauser »

faitswulff wrote: post #37

I feel like most posters here aren't reading the full article, specifically this paragraph: > When asked what could be done, Schindler suggests Apple implement a bypass that would allow certified recyclers and refurbishers to unlock donated devices if they’re not reported lost or stolen. And Shindler says 99% of the locked devices his facility receives aren’t lost or stolen. “People don’t steal a phone to then go run…

So now the mugger has a reason to beat me senseless so they can sell my phone before I wake up and report it stolen. I really don't want to incentivize a crackhead physically attacking me.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#86

Post by FarAdvance4 »

gruez wrote: post #77
izacus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't make a security feature with a backdoor, or it's not security feature anymore. Why are you so 100% sure that there's no way that Apple could design a system to keep it secure and allow recycling? There's hundreds of ways they could design their security flow where recycling is possible.

>Why are you so 100% sure that there's no way that Apple could design a system to keep it secure and allow recycling? There's hundreds of ways they could design their security flow where recycling is possible. Can you list some of them? How would you prevent unscrupulous recylers from turning into fences for stolen macs?

Not even just the recycling business owner. Hire Joe over here, he works there, learns the systems and how to unlock the devices legitimately.

What happens when he leaves, or is fired, or decides he's going to make some side money...

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#87

Post by chasil »

fortran77 wrote: post #28
snuxoll wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be simple for apple to extend the system by allowing recyclers to ask apple to send a message to the previous owner of the device. This would be extremely pro-consumer, because it would allow lost devices to be returned via an official channel. It would also allow users to release their claims on hardware they meant to give away. It would also make recovery of stolen devices easier. Refurbisher has Apple c…

This really can't work. They'd get unscrupulous people taking phones they sold back, or a couple who broke up where it's not clear who "owns" the phone. Nobody wants to put himself in the middle of these things.

I do not agree.

Apple could play the go-between. They could alert the previous owner that the device has been found, and provide a grace period where a user could request return, for a fee, including Apple's S&H, and a finders' fee for the reporting agent.

At the expiration of the grace period, Apple could provide a device reset code.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#88

Post by RHSeeger »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #11
crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

Exactly. This brew-ha-ha is nothing. This is an anti-theft feature. Hard to argue against features designed to reduce the potential for someone to target it for theft. As someone who has had both a smartphone and a laptop stolen, I would have loved to know that aside from my frustration with the insurance company that the thief walked away with 2 worthless bricks. And no, right to repair should not ban user-initiated…

> This is an anti-theft feature. Hard to argue against features designed to reduce the potential for someone to target it for theft.

And a 9pm curfew for anyone not currently working would prevent a lot of bad behavior too. Also, it would be idiotic. Not all things that have _some_ good aspects are good things.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#89

Post by AWildC182 »

eschaton wrote: post #84
AWildC182 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm making that claim on a personal basis. I've never had a device stolen and I know of exactly one such incident with a person I know. I just don't consider it a problem that trumps right to repair and if you do, I hope apple starts potting their devices in epoxy.

“I don’t believe the data because of a couple anecdotes.”

Never said I don't believe the data, I just think it's irrelevant. If 10 people had their phones stolen out of 10,000 that doesn't justify draconian anti-consumer measures.
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