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Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

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Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#81

>Smith, Yagan, Zidar, and Zwick find that the 1 percent’s income is being driven by owner-managers, mostly of small and medium-sized companies—specifically S corporations, partnerships, and limited liability companies. These are talented managers: the researchers find that profits of companies run by these 1 percent-ers are far higher than those of businesses owned by people in the top 5-–10 percent >“The demand for…

As a poor I certainly didn't have access to many modern conveniences. Especially when I had to deal with rotting teeth and dental abscesses without a way of affording the fix.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#82

My issue with all of these discussions is that they invariably present ideas that are just too complicated, and our tax code is just too complicated as it is. Create a system that can be applied evenly, and fairly, from the top to the bottom and then I think you’ve got a great and novel idea.

Tax brackets are not what make doing taxes difficult. The tricky thing about doing taxes is figuring out what counts as taxable income, what can be deducted from income, what credits one qualifies for, and other details. That's why the idea that taxes could be made easier by getting rid of brackets never made any sense. That argument is just a cover for undoing the progressive nature of the tax system (as in, the mor…

The parent comment never mentioned tax brackets. I think you're actually agreeing with each other.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#83

>Smith, Yagan, Zidar, and Zwick find that the 1 percent’s income is being driven by owner-managers, mostly of small and medium-sized companies—specifically S corporations, partnerships, and limited liability companies. These are talented managers: the researchers find that profits of companies run by these 1 percent-ers are far higher than those of businesses owned by people in the top 5-–10 percent >“The demand for…

> disproportionate contributions

Do you really argue that the people in the top 0.01% are contributing to society at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the rest of the people?

And in the case of heirs, such as the Walton family, are they contributing so vastly more than the guy who mows people's lawns during the day and cooks their dinners in a restaurant at night?

Or how about the Renaissance folks. They (whether fully legally or secretly illegally) reap huge rewards yearly, certainly using some advantages and situations most people do not have access to. Are they likewise contributing to society so much more than the average person?

Oh wait, let's talk nurses and schoolteachers. They pretty clearly contribute very heavily to society, and they get paid pretty poorly. Are they really contributing less, by factors of tens or hundreds, than Larry Ellison?

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#84

>Smith, Yagan, Zidar, and Zwick find that the 1 percent’s income is being driven by owner-managers, mostly of small and medium-sized companies—specifically S corporations, partnerships, and limited liability companies. These are talented managers: the researchers find that profits of companies run by these 1 percent-ers are far higher than those of businesses owned by people in the top 5-–10 percent >“The demand for…

I guess I'd have to disagree with your assessment. But I respect your opinion.

> they're contributing members of society being disproportionately rewarded for their disproportionate contributions

Are they contributing for their level of wealth being rewarded? Are they contributing 5,400+ times the average American is?

Our schools need funding (teachers are buying their own supplies), infrastructure needs funding (bridges are collapsing), and our healthcare is extremely expensive for the average person.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#85
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about how hard you work, but how hard it is to find someone else to do that job. Anyone can deliver packages.

You're just describing our psuedo free market society. Why stop there? It's who you know, it's luck, it's timing, it's who you're paying off, it's who you're lobbying, it's how much money you already have, etc.

I don't see how any of that refutes my claim.

What's the value of the delivery guy's network? The CEO's presumably lets him achieve results that others can't. He can broker better deals, hire better talent, push for more favorable laws. That's value to the firm, to shareholders, hence better pay.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#86
post #83

>Smith, Yagan, Zidar, and Zwick find that the 1 percent’s income is being driven by owner-managers, mostly of small and medium-sized companies—specifically S corporations, partnerships, and limited liability companies. These are talented managers: the researchers find that profits of companies run by these 1 percent-ers are far higher than those of businesses owned by people in the top 5-–10 percent >“The demand for…

> disproportionate contributions Do you really argue that the people in the top 0.01% are contributing to society at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the rest of the people? And in the case of heirs, such as the Walton family, are they contributing so vastly more than the guy who mows people's lawns during the day and cooks their dinners in a restaurant at night? Or how about the Renaissance folks. T…

The comment was referring to 1%ers, not 0.01%ers.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a universal principle that wealth must follow a power law, and even if it was, the coefficient need not be so extreme. The wealth inequality in America is higher than it has ever been. This did not come about naturally.

It actually does come about ”naturally”. You just need compound interest and bit of randomness. See https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... This does not mean it’s good. The source even presents some methods of avoiding it. But the key point is that it doesn’t need some sort of conspiracy of the rich to happen. It will happen inevitably without being anyones fault if steps are not taken to add…

So get rid of indefinite compound interest.

Generational wealth has always struck me as fundamentally unjust, for the basic reason that you don't get to pick your parents. I see the argument that a man is entitled to the sweat of his brow; we can debate just how to define what is his sweat vs. infrastructural sweat, but the underlying point seems fair enough. I do not see the argument that a man is entitled to the sweat of his father's brow.

The principle that you are entitled to what your parents or grandparents earned is behind all sorts of injustice in the world, from hereditary monarchies and wars of succession to wealth gaps between majority and minority ethnic groups long after formal discrimination has been outlawed. Even when the inheritance doesn't happen, you still have evils like abusive rich parents having leverage over their closeted college-age children because the financial aid system (in the US, at least) assumes that children have access to their parents' money.

There's a lot of possible ways to implement the system, but it is not inevitable that wealth, once concentrated, does not dissolve, and even leaving wealth inequality aside, there are good reasons to get rid of it.

I hadn't even read the abstract of the article you posted when I clicked "reply," but in fact, that article advocates for the same thing:

> We show that a tax on large inherited fortunes, applied to a small portion of the most fortunate in the population, can efficiently arrest the concentration of wealth at intermediate levels.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#88
As the article notes, an increasingly common path to the 1% is through skilled labor. I think this type of earner would have more in common with a 50%er than a 0.1%er.

My family has been in the 1% for a few years and we’re just bottom-rung individual contributors at FAANGs. 50% of our net worth is in our house. We don’t run or have stakes in any private businesses. No investment properties. The only thing that sets us apart is while an upper middle class family might do a European vacation one year, buy a car the next, and redo their bathroom the next, we do in the same year. Otherwise, I imagine our lives and aspirations are similar.

Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you also need is self-multiplying investments and a lack of wealth, income, and capital gains taxes. The current financial system didn't happen by accident. It was intentionally built in the 1980s by the Reagan administration, at the behest of rich Republican donors. It was not inevitable, it was engineered.

It will just slow it a bit. A non progressive capital gains tax even at 99.999% will still lead to power law distribution. And I don’t think anyone would say a tax that high is exactly done at behest of the rich. (EDIT: compound interest literally is self multiplying investment) One has to rather specifically design a progressive taxation system to avoid a power law. Read the paper. The conditions for power law are v…

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Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)

#90

My issue with all of these discussions is that they invariably present ideas that are just too complicated, and our tax code is just too complicated as it is. Create a system that can be applied evenly, and fairly, from the top to the bottom and then I think you’ve got a great and novel idea.

When it comes to taxes, "evenly" and "fairly" are not the same thing. That's the whole reason we have tax brackets in the first place.

Why is it impossible to be both even and fair?
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