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Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

benkuhn.net

81–90 of 317 posts

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#81
I'm planning to move to northern Alaska in a few years, so this information is very welcome.

I know I will need a setup against S.A.D. because it's very real up there.

If I get 4 of the 120 watt fanless bulbs, the daily cost of the bulbs and running them 8 hrs/day (assuming 30,000 lifespan) would cost only ~$0.29/day. That's an easy choice against SAD.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#82
There are a bunch of calculations about this in Dercuano, in particular based on indoor-growing setups, but with a chair in them instead of a plant pot. It turns out that fluorescent tubes or especially halogen bulbs are cheaper than LEDs, and at the small scale of a desk and chair, the extra energy is affordable.

One big problem for hackers is that very few screens are readable even in 10klux, let alone 100klux direct sunlight (although that has the disadvantage of burning you).

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#83
post #51

I usually eschew labels, preferring simply "sleep weirdo", but I fit the pattern of "Non-24 Sleep-Wake Disorder", with my sleep and waking times drifting progressively later at semi-regular intervals. The result is that I'm often awake through the night. (This week I'm going to bed around 9:00 a.m.) Even with that, I've noticed some pretty big productivity swings based on the season. Interestingly, this hit me very h…

Did you mean Edmonton?

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#84
post #51

I usually eschew labels, preferring simply "sleep weirdo", but I fit the pattern of "Non-24 Sleep-Wake Disorder", with my sleep and waking times drifting progressively later at semi-regular intervals. The result is that I'm often awake through the night. (This week I'm going to bed around 9:00 a.m.) Even with that, I've noticed some pretty big productivity swings based on the season. Interestingly, this hit me very h…

> Do LEDs really work for you?

All of them suck (objectively and subjectively) compared to full spectrum lamps.

> Does anyone else struggle with the light quality from modern lighting?

Besides poor light quality, another issue are dimmable LED lights which are often just PWM'd at a couple hundred Hz. This is a migraine trigger for me.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#85
post #71
post #65

> Other than “we’ve been doing it for a while,” there seems to be no reason to expect that being in a 100x dimmer environment all day wouldn’t be awful. Indoor darkness seems to be one of those things that we don’t question only because it’s been that way forever. An interesting question is: what average light levels existed in the Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness for humans, given the types of things our ance…

It could be different for everyone. My ancestors likely grew up in dense equatorial jungles and caves, not plains. A lot of my family members perform much better in dim light. My optimal seems to be 2-7 PM on a rainy day.

I'm not sure about the genetics of it (none of my family members seem to agree with me), but I also perform computer tasks far better in a dim light. A friend of me, who is also a night-owl, has the theory that when we get exposed to daylight, our cavemen heritage's natural reaction is to feel like going hunting/food gathering. While I don't buy the argument verbatim, I feel more like doing outdoor/physical activities on sunny days.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#86
post #51

I usually eschew labels, preferring simply "sleep weirdo", but I fit the pattern of "Non-24 Sleep-Wake Disorder", with my sleep and waking times drifting progressively later at semi-regular intervals. The result is that I'm often awake through the night. (This week I'm going to bed around 9:00 a.m.) Even with that, I've noticed some pretty big productivity swings based on the season. Interestingly, this hit me very h…

> Berlin, which is approximately as far north as Alberta, Canada, North America's northernmost large city

Presumably you mean the city of Edmonton. Alberta is about twice the size of Germany. ;)

> Do LEDs really work for you?

Mostly, yes. It's easy to buy halogens that all have pretty much the same good quality of light. LEDs you need balance CRI, R9, dimming quality, flickering, etc., but I've found LEDs that work for most of my use cases.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#87
post #51

I usually eschew labels, preferring simply "sleep weirdo", but I fit the pattern of "Non-24 Sleep-Wake Disorder", with my sleep and waking times drifting progressively later at semi-regular intervals. The result is that I'm often awake through the night. (This week I'm going to bed around 9:00 a.m.) Even with that, I've noticed some pretty big productivity swings based on the season. Interestingly, this hit me very h…

> Berlin, which is approximately as far north as Alberta, Canada, North America's northernmost large city Presumably you mean the city of Edmonton. Alberta is about twice the size of Germany. ;) > Do LEDs really work for you? Mostly, yes. It's easy to buy halogens that all have pretty much the same good quality of light. LEDs you need balance CRI, R9, dimming quality, flickering, etc., but I've found LEDs that work f…

Eek, yes, meant Edmonton -- typed too fast. Corrected.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#88

> The lamp flickers when other current-hungry appliances turn on That should not happen. There is likely a problem somewhere in the electrical system. We used to have similar problems in our home, hired an electrician to help track it down... they gave our home a clean bill of health, but called the city... long story short, they found a problem in a transformer a couple blocks away from us. It had been impacting man…

Wait. This isn't normal?!

I have the exact same thing happen here.

Whenever the bathroom heat lamp (well, lamps - 2 x 275W, 240V) turns on, I clearly see the lights in whatever room I'm in dip for maybe 10ms.

This used to happen with the old incandescent lamps from years back, but still happens with the newer CCFL types too. Has never not happened.

Huh. Something to keep in mind, particularly for whenever I'm in an environment with access to competent management/engineering ;) (I just know if I tried bringing it up with the current landlord I'm almost certain I'd be authoritatively told "that's normal"...)

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#89
post #82

There are a bunch of calculations about this in Dercuano, in particular based on indoor-growing setups, but with a chair in them instead of a plant pot. It turns out that fluorescent tubes or especially halogen bulbs are cheaper than LEDs, and at the small scale of a desk and chair, the extra energy is affordable. One big problem for hackers is that very few screens are readable even in 10klux, let alone 100klux dire…

What about transreflective displays?

Annoyingly I've still not seen one IRL. They go black and white, apparently, but are still 100% legible.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#90
post #55

> Isn’t this expensive to run? It draws about 2 kWh per day (assuming 8h of usage), which costs about $0.30 at typical rates. This is comparable to one day of a modern fridge or one load of laundry. Power is cheap, folks! But it will offset your other heat sources. If you live alone, you can treat it like a room heater and lower the temperature for the rest of your home. Since the bulb is radiating heat some degree o…

While LEDs do produce some waste heat, efficient ones convert 50%+ of the input power to visible light, so it's less than you might think (compare to ~10% for incandescents, iirc). The bulb I have doesn't have a perceptible effect on my room temperature (although I guess it probably does cause the thermostat to turn on a tiny bit less often).

Can you give an example of an LED bulb installation with 50%+ luminous efficacy? Perhaps you are thinking of the raw lumens/watt coming out of lab-grade LED material without considering other system draws (cooling, power conversion)?
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