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A new school curriculum

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Re: A new school curriculum

#81

> there are mental techniques, such as the memory palace, which enhance your ability to store and remember knowledge by 10x (not an exaggeration!). how did we miss that in school? Memorizing is pretty useless for doing anything except for passing highschool tests, and it can stop you from learning for real because it replaces understanding and independent derivation with recall. Of all the people I remember passing c…

A few years ago I would have agreed with you, however not anymore. Memorization is an integral part of internalizing some concepts and subjects. Check out this thread from Michael Nielsen on the topic:

https://twitter.com/michael_nielsen/status/95776322945477427...

Re: A new school curriculum

#82
> absolute pitch, the rare ability to identify a musical note like F# just by hearing it, can be a massive benefit to a musician. you can learn the skill in a matter of weeks, but it can only be acquired before the age of 7. only 0.01% of people end up learning it in time!

This seems to be a very problematic paragraph. In particular:

> it can only be acquired before the age of 7

I'm doubtful about how true this is. I can't find anything backing up this claim (unless you count "being born with synesthesia" or "being blind at birth" as "acquired"); the closest I can find is Mozart having demonstrated this ability by age 7.

On the contrary, this seems like the exact sort of thing someone could readily memorize well beyond that age (maybe not perfectly, but within a given margin of error, sure), much like one might recognize a given tempo or a given shade of orange. It's hard, but with practice it's possible.

In fact, most people are able to recognize the pitches themselves; even amateur singers (and non-singers entirely) can sing songs they've heard in approximately the right key, and the average person can usually recognize when a song is pitched up or down relative to how it's "supposed" to be (this is one of the common traits for both nightcore and vaporwave: shifting the pitch up or down, respectively). What's missing here is the ability to actually name that pitch, but just because one can't vocalize what the brain recognizes doesn't mean recognition/identification doesn't happen at all; it just happens through other mechanisms (like singing/playing that note again later).

In my case, I certainly don't have "absolute pitch" as defined by that paragraph, but if you sang something to me and asked me to play it on a trombone I could probably do it without having to fumble for a reference note. Worst-case, I can produce a reference note in my head (usually B-flat, since most brass instruments nowadays are keyed to it) and extrapolate.

And on that note:

> can be a massive benefit to a musician

I'm very doubtful about how true this is. Usually what's far more critical is relative pitch - that is, the ability to accurately recreate a pitch in relation to some arbitrary reference pitch (e.g. singing/playing a note in a chord or scale). Absolute pitch (in this specific sense, rather than the more innate/internal sense I described above) helps for music transcription, and... that's about it. Being able to sing a perfect 440Hz A does jack squat if that A's supposed to be in an F-major chord/scale.

If anything, absolute pitch recognition can make it harder to perform in an ensemble, or to perform music with a different pitch convention other than A=440 (e.g. Baroque music), or to otherwise be able to adapt one's pitch to match the actual music to be performed.

Re: A new school curriculum

#83
post #42

> there are mental techniques, such as the memory palace, which enhance your ability to store and remember knowledge by 10x (not an exaggeration!). how did we miss that in school? Memorizing is pretty useless for doing anything except for passing highschool tests, and it can stop you from learning for real because it replaces understanding and independent derivation with recall. Of all the people I remember passing c…

Memorizing is not useless at all. Here is a few examples: In order to sing a song, you need to memorize it. If you play poker, you can memorize useful probabilities, because you don't want to perform calculations all the time. As a sys admin, you need to memorize commands and their syntax. The list is endless.

> As a sys admin, you need to memorize commands and their syntax.

As a sysadmin, I just Google it (or DuckDuckGo it, nowadays). I also take notes; why should I memorize something if I can tell my computer to memorize it for me?

Re: A new school curriculum

#84
post #23

I would also add many things that are taught have a lot of historical cruft. For example, calculus. What is taught currently by most high schools is a horrible mess that mixes infinitesimal calculus as devised by Newton-Leibniz with late 1800s epsilon-delta formalisms. Clarifying this would shed a lot of light into student understanding. Same thing can be said about linear algebra, where lots of algorithmic stuff hid…

Thanks for saying what I was about to.

Yes I find the curriculum often runs in 'historic' order, as if the students are expected to learn in the same order as humanity discovered things.

Why not teach the powerful underlying principles as soon as they can be comprehended? For example, it's not until after you've learned about many kinds of chemical reactions that you actually learn what chemistry is, about atomic electron shells, valence, etc.

Same with biology, too much naming flower parts, and not enough evolution, molecular biology, etc.

Re: A new school curriculum

#85
post #21

I would argue that a well-run school addresses many of the items on this short list. I learned most of these in my schooling, and I saw most of these things being taught in the reasonably-run schools I have been a part of in 25 years of teaching middle school and high school in the US. That said, I also know there are many schools that are so poorly run that very little of this comes up. So the larger, and much harde…

You ignore the problem of inputs. What if the unfortunate truth is that educational outcomes are mostly determined by the native capacities and attributes of the students. If the input determines the output and school or teacher level effects merely mediate some of that, then isn’t it all just a cruel charade designed to give the illusion that we live in a meritocracy. It seems like students and our society are the u…

There is certainly a strong influence brought by the student, but then one of the key influences in that regard is that of the parent(s) and what happens in early years, especially encouraging kids to read books. That is one of the most crucial 'learning how to learn' things you can do for a child. And if kids grow up to be parents themselves without understanding how to learn, the responsibility is passed even more to schools.

Learning starts in the home and continues there through school life. I've seen parents complaining to teachers about how their kids aren't doing well enough, but as though it's nothing to do with them.

Re: A new school curriculum

#86
One of my English teachers when I was 13 asked us what 'to educate' meant. Everyone associated it with being told things by a teacher, in school.

Educate comes from the Latin ex duco - to draw out of. Education isn't about pushing knowledge in, it's about pulling understanding out.

I think the schools systems worldwide struggle with balancing skills for life vs qualifications for the next stage of life.

Re: A new school curriculum

#87
post #35
post #27

> absolute pitch, the rare ability to identify a musical note like F# just by hearing it, can be a massive benefit to a musician. you can learn the skill in a matter of weeks, but it can only be acquired before the age of 7. only 0.01% of people end up learning it in time! I find it dubious that you can only learn this by age 7 - although I'm sure it's easier if you're younger. Is there science behind this claim? I a…

> the rare ability to identify a musical note like F# just by hearing it, can be a massive benefit to a musician It can also be a curse. I've known a number of people with perfect pitch. Those who were pianists typically insisted on playing only electric pianos, because a typical mechanical piano that's not in a performance hall is probably not tuned until "regular" listeners can tell it is out, but it could be out e…

I'm probably one of those people that can identify specific notes, but probably only if they're played on a piano. I play an electronic piano and what I find amusing/frustrating is if I use the 'transpose' function. So when I play for example in C but it is D that comes from the speakers, I will often find my fingers migrating to 'correct' the pitch. And if you wonder why I'd transpose, it's because - to my ears - a piece of music can sound noticeably different shifted just half a tone.

Re: A new school curriculum

#88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a professor that loved to make simple substitutions to values in questions, where the original question would be incredibly difficult, but if you spotted the substitution, the amount of work you had to do was dramatically reduced. Think something like integrate cos x + i sin x dx, if you spot that cos x + i sin x = e^(ix), and perform substitution, the problem becomes trivial. Deriving information from facts is…

Every college math class I took gave me a sheet with those kinds of identities on it. If I was doing the kind of work where I actually had to do calculus involving trig functions, you can bet I'd pull up a similar sheet while I was working. Sure having it memorized would be a bit faster, but that's true for far more things than I can actually memorize.

Problem is you need to remember the patterns first to be able to think "hey I know this pattern. Maybe if I look up what the identity is it will be usefull"
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