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Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

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Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#81

Post by m104 »

mfringel wrote: post #55
m104 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think that Apple would let their SSD-buying customers twist in the wind? The people paying a premium, or buying an MacBook Air? You're saying that Apple hasn't had or won't have a way to make OS X love the SSD? Apple, the company that will probably be the first major computer manufacturer to eliminate the spinning disks, the company that is doing whatever it can to snatch up flash memory production capacit…

Apple wouldn't let customers "twist in the wind", it would sell them a solution. An SSD is a wear item, and consequently a revenue stream. Imagine a replacement plan similar to the current battery replacement policy. Right now, you pay a fixed price, and they'll crack the case and swap out the battery. Doing it for an SSD after some fixed amount of time would follow quite nicely, and give them the upsell opportunity.…

No, this isn't Apple's business and if you think this is how they operate then you haven't been paying attention. An SSD degradation issue would destroy the trust they (Apple) have built into their brand in a way that the supposed "scandal" of Antennagate never could.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#82

Post by m104 »

statictype wrote: post #43
m104 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think that Apple would let their SSD-buying customers twist in the wind? The people paying a premium, or buying an MacBook Air? You're saying that Apple hasn't had or won't have a way to make OS X love the SSD? Apple, the company that will probably be the first major computer manufacturer to eliminate the spinning disks, the company that is doing whatever it can to snatch up flash memory production capacit…

Are you trying to make some point? If you have an answer, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing it, because as far as I know, that little thing is needed for SSDs to work properly over long term, since overwriting pages in a flash disk is significantly more costly than writing data to fresh pages. If you don't have an answer, well, your comment seems to be fairly content-free.

My point is that your conclusion was solely based on what you "know" and not what's really going on. You've illustrated my point very clearly. You "know" three things:

a) SSDs "need" TRIM support and driver support or the storage performance will greatly suffer b) Apple doesn't support TRIM, at least not officially c) Apple hasn't stated they will have TRIM support in the future

and from those three things, you're just sure that Apple's customers will pay some terrible price.

But you need to ask a few questions to back up what you "know":

1) Where are all of the "my MBA/MBP slows to crawl when the SSD is full" complaints? 2) Why would Apple bet the future of their OS X and iOS line of products on storage performance that painfully degrades with usage? 3) When, ever, has Apple displayed a stunning lack of foresight with their technology shifts that left millions of customers to twist in the wind?

When you add these to the mix, something doesn't add up. That should cause you to pause for a moment and say, hmm, perhaps I don't "know" everything. My reply was supposed to get you to say, "ah, I hadn't considered that." I was adding to the discussion by (trying to) provoke a bit of insightful reasoning beyond the typical "I'm sure I know what I'm talking about even though I haven't tested it."

Ignore me, though. It's just a debate with our opinions and perspectives. Look at the data, instead.

ugh's comment deserves to be upvoted because it links to benchmarked testing of Apple's SSD-bearing devices. The conclusion is clear: Apple's SSD performance isn't affected by a) and thus your line of reasoning is garbage. They were stunned and you should be too. I can confirm these benchmarks, if you don't trust them, by filling up the SSD on my own MBA. No performance penalties that I can see.

So, at least one of the three things that you "know" from a), b), and c) is wrong. Since you seemed to be teetering on the side of Schadenfreude with your original comment, I'm going to guess that you generally avoid Apple products and had genuinely wished that you were right or will be proven right. Ask yourself some questions from a different perspective next time or, better yet, look up some hard data. That way you will either learn that you are wrong earlier or will have some evidence to back up your opinion.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#83

Post by notJim »

trezor wrote: post #75
notJim wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where 3G is everywhere and wifi is a hastle. I'm an American, and don't understand this statement. Why is WiFi a hassle? And how does the 3g work? Do you just get it through your normal mobile phone provider?

Yes. Wifi is hastle because you have to search for open hotspots, ask at the counter what the password is etc etc. And lots of times they don't provide instant connectivity, but redirect you to and force you to go trough some sort of user-agreement where you have to click "I agree" and maybe even pass out your email before you can actually start using their network. This is annoying. 3G is basically what your phone h…

Ahh, I see. That's more-or-less the same situation we have here, except that I like talking to the cute girl behind the counter at the coffee shop :).

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#84

Post by statictype »

m104 wrote: post #82
statictype wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to make some point? If you have an answer, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing it, because as far as I know, that little thing is needed for SSDs to work properly over long term, since overwriting pages in a flash disk is significantly more costly than writing data to fresh pages. If you don't have an answer, well, your comment seems to be fairly content-free.

My point is that your conclusion was solely based on what you "know" and not what's really going on. You've illustrated my point very clearly. You "know" three things: a) SSDs "need" TRIM support and driver support or the storage performance will greatly suffer b) Apple doesn't support TRIM, at least not officially c) Apple hasn't stated they will have TRIM support in the future and from those three things, you're ju…

ugh's comment deserves to be upvoted because it links to benchmarked testing of Apple's SSD-bearing devices.

Yes, and I upvoted him for that. He provided an actual answer instead of just knee-jerk condescension and deriding me for even asking the question.

Since you seemed to be teetering on the side of Schadenfreude with your original comment, I'm going to guess that you generally avoid Apple products and had genuinely wished that you were right or will be proven right.

Yes, I suspected that this was your opinion based on the tone of your post and really, you have no basis whatsoever for reaching this conclusion.

Not that it should even matter but I have a 13" MacBook, a Mac-Mini at home and an iPhone 3GS. So maybe you should remember this the next time you start to make assumptions on a person commenting without knowing anything whatsoever about them :)

or, better yet, look up some hard data

Yes, some people knowledgeable on the topic commented and showed that my original hypothesis was wrong, and that's fine. I was looking for a reason 'why' disks would work, and I got it.

Your comment provided no such value to the conversation.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#85

Post by Yaggo »

trezor wrote: post #49

The only thing which put me off getting a MacBook Pro last time I was shopping for laptops was the lack of built in 3G. So instead I got a Dell Studio XPS laptop, with a Core i5 CPU, 256GB SSD, builtin 3G, full-HD display. For $1000 less than a "similarly" speced MBP (Core2, 128GB SSD, sub HD-res unless you want a 17" beast) no less. I really don't regret my decision, but if Apple would just consider adding a 3G modu…

iPhone tethering anyone? Integrated 3G would be redundant.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#86

Post by code_duck »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #9
code_duck wrote: post #5

I'd be glad if they changed the glass on the 15" to plastic. The glass has caused me two problems so far: I was in bed with it moving around, and the notebook went off balance. The edge of the screen part hit me in the nose. If it was plastic, it would have been a lot less heavy. Next, the glass broke when the lid was closed with a USB cable near the hinge, between the top of the keyboard the screen. It didn't take m…

Talk about edge cases. Have you ever considered applying to be an Apple tester? ;)

In related news, I just started my washing machine with my iPod in it.

It was a bit foggy under the camera, and started making some screechy noises when I was talking on Skype. The good news is I left it by a heater vent all night and now it's as good as new.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#87

Post by nika »

moeffju wrote: post #69
nika wrote: post #61

We run our startup from two 15" MacBook Pros. For mine, I took out the optical drive and replaced it with a 1TB hard drive. Where the original hard drive went, I put in a tiny SSD. This works great. OS and apps on the SSD, and I put the iMovie events and Aperture libraries on the hard drive. I don't know why Marco thinks that Time Machine wouldn't back up both drives, it does back mine up. I also think that Firewire…

Since I did a similar mod, I would recommend you put the HD in the HDD's place, not the optical drive bay. The HDD bay is designed for a disks that vibrate and get hot etc., while the optical bay is not. If your HDD is there, your keyboard will get uncomfortably warm if the HDD is used, and the whole case will vibrate. Put the SSD in the optical bay instead.

Thanks for the advice!

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#88

Post by Udo »

notJim wrote: post #83
trezor wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Wifi is hastle because you have to search for open hotspots, ask at the counter what the password is etc etc. And lots of times they don't provide instant connectivity, but redirect you to and force you to go trough some sort of user-agreement where you have to click "I agree" and maybe even pass out your email before you can actually start using their network. This is annoying. 3G is basically what your phone h…

Ahh, I see. That's more-or-less the same situation we have here, except that I like talking to the cute girl behind the counter at the coffee shop :).

In Europe, they're not necessarily cute or even girls. Also, most places don't even have WiFi (at least here in Germany). The only way to be sure is to go to an American franchise such as Starbucks or McDonald's, and only very select cities have a Starbucks. McD's of course is everywhere but those are not exactly places anyone would want to read their emails in.

3G coverage is not ideal (it falls back to basic GPRS or 2G in many locations) but it's enough for getting emails.

I wish phone manufacturers or Apple would offer a PAN solution, a personal network that every device in a person's vicinity could use for net access. Ideally, this would be a mini WiFi or Bluetooth router inside the cell phone that's always on. Of course, such a setup is doable with a lot of hassle with some very specific combination of devices, but it would be really great if it simply worked without painful hacks. Portable 3G routers are a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, they are clunky standalone devices with a very limited battery life...

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#89

Post by mtklein »

Udo wrote: post #88
notJim wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, I see. That's more-or-less the same situation we have here, except that I like talking to the cute girl behind the counter at the coffee shop :).

In Europe, they're not necessarily cute or even girls. Also, most places don't even have WiFi (at least here in Germany). The only way to be sure is to go to an American franchise such as Starbucks or McDonald's, and only very select cities have a Starbucks. McD's of course is everywhere but those are not exactly places anyone would want to read their emails in. 3G coverage is not ideal (it falls back to basic GPRS o…

For something that simply works without any painful hacks, Android 2.2+ has a built-in WiFi hotspot feature. Turn it on and you've got a personal WiFi network that goes out to the world over your mobile's data connection.

I've used it for about a year with no problems at all. If you're using the WiFi hotspot for a long time and you find you're running out of battery, you can just plug it in to your laptop to charge over USB.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#90

Post by trezor »

mtklein wrote: post #89
Udo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, they're not necessarily cute or even girls. Also, most places don't even have WiFi (at least here in Germany). The only way to be sure is to go to an American franchise such as Starbucks or McDonald's, and only very select cities have a Starbucks. McD's of course is everywhere but those are not exactly places anyone would want to read their emails in. 3G coverage is not ideal (it falls back to basic GPRS o…

For something that simply works without any painful hacks, Android 2.2+ has a built-in WiFi hotspot feature. Turn it on and you've got a personal WiFi network that goes out to the world over your mobile's data connection. I've used it for about a year with no problems at all. If you're using the WiFi hotspot for a long time and you find you're running out of battery, you can just plug it in to your laptop to charge o…

Heck. Windows Mobile 5 had that (via bloototh or USB). It's still nice for your laptop to have dedicated connectivity and relying on external devices.
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