A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life • Hacker News Board

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#81

Post by topmonk » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:26 AM UTC

Doingmything123 wrote: post #70

topmonk wrote: post #57

I think human emotional state is nature's tool to get us to procreate and improve the chances of our offspring to survive. If at anytime we become truly happy this hurts these goals. For example, if an old man could be building a wall or an arsenal of bows an arrows, or inventing a better way to go fishing, his tribe would be more likely to survive. But if he just sat there, content to being alive, this is bad for hi…

What if the human emotional state is a byproduct of human consciousness. In that way, it isn't something that can just be chopped off as unnecessary. Not to say that it doesn't help with procreation but I think your view point is a little too cynical. What does this suggest about people that don't have kids?

> What if the human emotional state is a byproduct of human consciousness.

I have no idea what “human consciousness” is. I'm not deriding you, but I have never heard a satisfactory explanation. I kind of suspect it isn't actually real.

> What does this suggest about people that don't have kids?

There are a lot of species of wild animals that will not procreate in captivity. Take a group of these creature that is adapted to a certain environment and then place them in a completely different environment and they will for some reason lose their will to procreate even though they are physically able to do so.

I think it's the same with human beings. Technology has pushed so far and fast away from how we used to live, some of us, for whatever reason, don't procreate anymore.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#82

Post by anon9001 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:28 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #80

anon9001 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe? Let's say I had a kid that got kidnapped, and I spend all night restless like a normal human being. Where has that actually gotten me? And if the kid never comes back, what's an appropriate "normal human" duration of restlessness? People go to therapy for years to get over that restless stuff and replace it with some version of accepting that the world is not under your control. No doubt that upsetting things…

> Maybe? Let's say I had a kid that got kidnapped, and I spend all night restless like a normal human being. Where has that actually gotten me? People don't respond to things just because it "gets them somewhere", and even less for such events. One doesn't do a calculation "I'll grieve for X amount of time, because this has the best effects", except if they are a sociopath. At best they can say after some time "I fee…

We're in agreement. I'm just saying the goal is to process events, grieve, and find a path back to "normal". Where, ideally, "normal" isn't constant anxiety and existential crises. Eventually, you have to learn to let even the most traumatic stuff go, or it'll haunt you forever.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#83

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:35 AM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #32

Hayao Miyazaki (Studio Ghibli) said (at around 70 as well), "The notion that one's goal in life is to be happy, that your own happiness is the goal... I just don't buy it" I think as we focus on mastery or craftsmanship, happiness finds us. Not everyone, but I'd say modern society is hedonistic—we seek happiness instead of achievement and get neither.

>we seek happiness instead of achievement and get neither.

Probably because we've been conditioned (through billions of dollars, spent yearly, on marketing) to believe that happiness comes with the acquisition of certain items, status or experiences.

We've conflated happiness with dopamine rushes and short-lived pleasure, and believe the feeling can be elongated by merely emulating the actions which either provided both or could provide more of both.

Many of us have also altered our lives to support the above mentality - living in densely packed cities with air and sound pollution, or poor commutes, working around the clock, or in chaotic and stressful companies, doing ultimately purposeless or even outright destructive work, with the hopes of gaining more money or more status to fund the above, etc.

Coupled with the increasing social isolation and division, the never-ending outrage we're told to feel over today's new issue, which we as a civilization are going through, it's not hard to see why people are finding it hard to say they're happy.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#84

Post by outworlder » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:42 AM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #30

yters wrote: post #20

When I step back and look at my life, I have to say it is pretty good. I get agitated when I lose perspective and magnify some particular bad thing. Also, as a Christian, this gives me the ultimate relief, because I can step back and say whatever unimaginably horrible thing is happening God is ultimately in control orchestrating things for maximal good, of which maximal good is also at some fundamental level in line…

> And if God doesn't exist, then nothing matters anyways, so why worry? I'm not trying to start a pointless debate, your comment really made me curious. Let's imagine the Christian god doesnt't exist. How does that logically lead to nothing mattering? As a lifelong atheist there are plenty of things that matter to me: the well-being of people (particularly those around me), peace, justice, climate change, etc. Are th…

> And if God doesn't exist, then nothing matters anyways, so why worry?

I would argue the opposite: if god does exist, then nothing really matters anymore, except the whims of a powerful entity.

Not having a supernatural power meddling in our affairs liberates us to do great things.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#85

Post by outworlder » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:44 AM UTC

sharkmerry wrote: post #63

yters wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion of God and and eternal reward or punishment are quite often tied together. It is hard to see one without the other. Hence, if God exists and there is eternal punishment, that is a little bit scary.

>Hence, if God exists and there is eternal punishment, that is a little bit scary Eternal punishment only exists if you arent a good person right? Heaven isnt eternal punishment?

> Heaven isnt eternal punishment?

It could be. Think of all the boring people that would supposedly be in there. Now think that you get to spend infinity time with them.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#86

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:47 AM UTC

NeoBasilisk wrote: post #59

david-gpu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if God doesn't exist, then nothing matters anyways, so why worry? I'm not trying to start a pointless debate, your comment really made me curious. Let's imagine the Christian god doesnt't exist. How does that logically lead to nothing mattering? As a lifelong atheist there are plenty of things that matter to me: the well-being of people (particularly those around me), peace, justice, climate change, etc. Are th…

Things can matter to you, but they are not things that objectively matter.

That's true even if God exists; the fact that some things subjectively matter to God doesn't make them matter objectively. It may mean that there are consequences that matter subjectively to you for not prioritizing them, though.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#87

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:48 AM UTC

topmonk wrote: post #79

WalterBright wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm basically a happy person. But that doesn't mean I'm content to sit on the beach. I can't stand that. I need to be doing something useful.

Yes, but not everyone is like that. Just as some people are taller, smarter, more artistic, etc. some people have a baseline happiness that is higher than others. Consider yourself lucky.

> Consider yourself lucky.

I do. I also feel lucky in that while my eyesight and coordination are poor, my interests lie elsewhere so that doesn't impair me.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#88

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:49 AM UTC

yters wrote: post #36

m0zg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An atheist myself, but I imagine this has to do with the lack of eternal life after death in that case. Religious people find the idea of life after death comforting, and it's easy to understand why: most people fear death and can't comprehend their consciousness ending at some point, for the same reasons why we can't comprehend things like the big bang or infinity. There is, by definition, no example that we could p…

No, I mean something more practical, not based in religious reasoning. If you think about it, if God does not exist, then death has no threat, since once you are dead you cease to exist and no longer care about anything. I believe this was pointed out by Epicurus.

> If you think about it, if God does not exist, then death has no threat, since once you are dead you cease to exist and no longer care about anything.

That is exactly the threat of death, if, while alive, you value your ability to continue existing and caring about things.

Threats inherently operate by reference to your preferences before they are realized, not your preferences after they are realized. Once you have the post-realization preferences, it can't be a threat any more, because there is no longer a possibility of not realizing the consequences.

If death is non-existence, you can't be threatened after death, but death can still be a threat. You can't use the complete indifference that comes with non-existence to say that death is not a threat: it is only not a threat if you are indifferent to death while alive, which is possible (as is it's opposite) whether or not death is non-existence.

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#89

Post by bryananderson » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:50 AM UTC

NeoBasilisk wrote: post #59

david-gpu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if God doesn't exist, then nothing matters anyways, so why worry? I'm not trying to start a pointless debate, your comment really made me curious. Let's imagine the Christian god doesnt't exist. How does that logically lead to nothing mattering? As a lifelong atheist there are plenty of things that matter to me: the well-being of people (particularly those around me), peace, justice, climate change, etc. Are th…

Things can matter to you, but they are not things that objectively matter.

Even if God does exist, why does that make anything objectively matter?

Re: A 70-year-old's secret to a full and happy life

#90

Post by UnpossibleJim » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:53 AM UTC

Weirdly enough, I was having a chat with my mom about this sort of thing last night (she's 69, not 70, so I'm not sure she's old enough for her opinion to count, yet). Both of us were chatting about our tendency to be solitary and only see family and a couple of core friends. Past that, we'll hide away in books and study for days and not notice, perfectly happy but when we have to come out of our houses we are out of sorts with the world and it scares us a little that we are so very happy in this hermit way. We have to force ourselves to be social, which is supposed to be the key to long life and happiness - and we try, but it comes so foreign to some. I have to wonder if these 'keys to happiness' are as universal as advertised.

And for the record - we both are social, but it isn't our natural state =)