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We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

thewalrus.ca

81–88 of 88 posts

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#81
post #15

If we do this, we'd be lead by whatever accidental majority gets in. And they have no incentive to do what the people want. The only saving grace would be that people have more of a sense of duty, and thus are less likely to abuse their power. But beyond that any unlucky draw could really screw over a country.

What greater incentive do current voters have for picking the correct policy/representative? Either way, people with power are balancing their personal interest with justice / the public interest.

Voters don't, but politicians have incentive to listen to voters, rather than being totally in it for themselves. In other words, the desire to be re-elected causes politicians to listen to the people, rather than do whatever they want. At least, that is the theory.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't already the case though? If yes, it should not prevent us from tying out term limit, only push us to also add some mechanism to deal with bureaucrats.

It also further empowers the lobbyists, which adds to the risks. A government full of ignorant people will tend to fall back on those who seem to know what they're talking about.

Lobbying is a problem on its own, and should be dealt with anyway, and independently of other changes to the system.

There is no way to preserve democracy when there is a legal path for bribing those in charge of power.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#83
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lottery system has several variants to take that in consideration. In one of them, everybody votes for x (e.g: 3) people around them. Then you remove the top 10% to avoid people campaigning, and the bottom 10% to avoid psychopathic candidates. The ones that remain can then register to the lottery. In some variants, you have limits to the wealth you have, jobs you hold, geographic min and max, number of times you…

Tactical voting would have a field day with that.

Tactical voting has a field day with almost any strategy. We love playing games with out system.

But my intuition is that this system would lower the incentive to do so by nature, because of the culture it promotes.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#84
post #13

The 2016 presidential election was well within sampling error, so we kind of did.

Was it? Didn't DT overwhelmingly win the electoral college?

I was referring to the popular vote. HRC won there but by such a small margin it was well within sampling error.

I think we should have a runoff in that case. Drop all the other candidates and have just HRC vs DT. Of course I'm also not a fan of the electoral college system.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#85
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What greater incentive do current voters have for picking the correct policy/representative? Either way, people with power are balancing their personal interest with justice / the public interest.

Voters don't, but politicians have incentive to listen to voters, rather than being totally in it for themselves. In other words, the desire to be re-elected causes politicians to listen to the people, rather than do whatever they want. At least, that is the theory.

Sure, politicians might have to listen to voters, but if voters themselves are selfish then how does that help? Like, if we are worried about the hypothetical winners of the sortition lottery would legislate selfishly, shouldn't we worry just as much that normal voters will elect politicians who will pass legislation that furthers the voters' selfish interests?

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#86
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it? Didn't DT overwhelmingly win the electoral college?

I was referring to the popular vote. HRC won there but by such a small margin it was well within sampling error. I think we should have a runoff in that case. Drop all the other candidates and have just HRC vs DT. Of course I'm also not a fan of the electoral college system.

She won popular vote by over a million I thought? Is that within sampling error?

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#87
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voters don't, but politicians have incentive to listen to voters, rather than being totally in it for themselves. In other words, the desire to be re-elected causes politicians to listen to the people, rather than do whatever they want. At least, that is the theory.

Sure, politicians might have to listen to voters, but if voters themselves are selfish then how does that help? Like, if we are worried about the hypothetical winners of the sortition lottery would legislate selfishly, shouldn't we worry just as much that normal voters will elect politicians who will pass legislation that furthers the voters' selfish interests?

If you aggregate the selfish interests of all voters, you get a better reflection of what society wants than if you average the selfish interests of 1000 people chosen at random.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have quite the oppossite approach- if corruption is so unavoidable, why not instituionalize it? The economic sector gets 25 % of the votes in parliament. Companys can boost the percentage of there representive in this fixed part, by paying taxes (in secret). If there are 25 company representives, and every company pays 1 billion - they get each get 1% of the economic-sector-power to distribute. Corruption outside o…

If we know that corruption varies a lot between states (as in countries) and, worldwide, has reduced over time, why would we think it's inevitable? I see a lot of estimating-as-inevitable in many problem areas - for example: the environment, race and sex relations, security / "privacy". I'm not sure whether it has increased, or I'm just more aware of it these days. When we think that a problem is inevitable, we may c…

No trying to be optimistic here- but the fact is that with the nightwatch state- alot of corruption simply ceased to be because the rule of law evaporated- making corruption effectively legal behaviour. Germany, the place where i live is incredible corrupt, but most of it is legal behaviour, thus not showing up in your statistics.
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