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Software Updates

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Re: Software Updates

#81

Post by roel_v »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #65
nickjj wrote: post #42

2 Windows programs that I've been using for ~15 years have done a great job at avoiding the abyss. They would be IrfanView[0] (image viewer) and foobar2000[1] (mp3 player). Both programs are very minimal and have stayed true to their vision. Using them today feels similar to how it was 5 or even 10 years ago, but at the same time subtle improvements have been made too. Both are still under active development, so it's…

I never stopped using Winamp. I've been whippin that llama for over 20 years.

So have I. And if anyone would write a plugin for it so that I could play Youtube Music through it (not sure if the API even allows that), I'd pay for that.

Re: Software Updates

#82

Post by brewdad »

Crinus wrote: post #20
s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

> I don't understand how the "modern" Windows start menu works they introduced in Win 8 I think. The current start menu was introduced in Windows 10 though even the initial 10 version was a bit different. Windows 8 had a "start screen" where there were only tiles (that are now at the side) and took the entire screen. Because the Windows 8 start screen and the initial Windows 10 start menu strongly deemphasized folder…

I've given up trying to locate the program I need via the tiles. Now I hit the Windows key and start typing the application name I need. Making the interface worse has actually made things easier in many cases. Except when I end up launching a web search by mistake.

Re: Software Updates

#83

Post by cartoonworld »

s9w wrote: post #25
rjsw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point on phones is the odd one out for me, my fairly new $20 Nokia/HMD phone has really good audio even when making international calls.

Maybe it's a regional thing. I'm German and things are often shittier versions here than anywhere else. I haven't had a phone conversation that felt like a latency under .5 seconds in 5+ years.

I've switched to using Signal for voice calls as much as possible. Signal voice quality is very consistently excellent.

Unfortunately it does not help you if you want to use the regular dialer to access the telco voice networks and/or nobody you know has the app.

Re: Software Updates

#84

Post by arghwhat »

sambeau wrote: post #78
arghwhat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of functionality broken by updates have not in any way been related to security mitigations.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was trying to point out that ideally you could just leave the old API there for old software to use and build a new API for new software to use. If it wasn't for security bugs you could leave the old API untouched. Sadly, security issues prevent this and after a while it becomes uneconomical to supply even security fixes. This is why hardware that relies on software has a…

And that is exactly my point: API changes are rarely—if ever—caused by security fixes, and thus are not the cause of breakage, despite you attributing the impossibility of stable APIs to it.

A fixed piece of software can have a limited lifetime for only two reasons: Dependence on ephemeral infrastructure (e.g. cloud services that disappear or change), and assumptions that fail over time (e.g. "the device will never be used after 2020" + hardcoded calendar).

Only the first can be caused by API changes, and the API changes are usually always caused by voluntary product rewrite and infrastructure deprecation, not by security issues.

In other words, the problems spawn from entirely voluntary and technically unnecessary actions, and you cannot claim that is caused by some unavoidable law of nature, such proliferation of security issues.

Re: Software Updates

#85

Post by arghwhat »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #21
arghwhat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows hardware + driver compatibility is a nightmare fueled by proprietary duct-taped one-off drivers supporting only one or two devices each. One of the reasons for this is that you can get away with anything on Windows, because everything is proprietary. There are headsets targeting Windows users that require kernel-mode drivers to work. Which, of course, is super fragile and will break at some point, rendering y…

> There are headsets targeting Windows users that require kernel-mode drivers to work. That's horrifying. What headsets are these? Gaming headsets? I wouldn't trust that industry with kernel mode access to my compurer.

It is indeed horrifying, and the particular products I'm thinking of are indeed from a series of gaming headsets. There are other categories of headsets, speakerphones and the likes that are equally awful, though, which is why I see the problem as universal to products targeting Windows:

There is no scrutiny to stop this idiocy, and the average consumer has no idea why this is bad, and no idea that those blue screens were because of a headset.

Having a connection to said company, I'd rather not name them though.

Re: Software Updates

#86

Post by growt »

brewdad wrote: post #82
Crinus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how the "modern" Windows start menu works they introduced in Win 8 I think. The current start menu was introduced in Windows 10 though even the initial 10 version was a bit different. Windows 8 had a "start screen" where there were only tiles (that are now at the side) and took the entire screen. Because the Windows 8 start screen and the initial Windows 10 start menu strongly deemphasized folder…

I've given up trying to locate the program I need via the tiles. Now I hit the Windows key and start typing the application name I need. Making the interface worse has actually made things easier in many cases. Except when I end up launching a web search by mistake.

I do the same, because for some reason only microsoft knows those tiles display the latest news and try to get me to launch candy crush instead of helping me to launch programs.

So I only use the search feature which works ok most of the time. Some days ago I fixed the printer on my wife's laptop which involved a restart as usual. Right after the restart I typed "printer" in the search field and all I got was web -search. So right after a restart windows "forgets" that it has a native setting for configuring printers (and basicly everthing else).

Re: Software Updates

#87

Post by mitchtbaum »

s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

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Re: Software Updates

#88

Post by purple_ducks »

epidemian wrote: post #69
buboard wrote: post #36

Things i tried to keep using way longer than most: -windows 7 (upgraded only for widi support - and i miss them) - skype (i d never upgrade if i could) - photoshop standalone (still use it) - office 2007 ( still use it) - dropbox (no option there) - old reddit - iphone 6 - jquery (plan to avoid npm until it dies of natural causes) - windows movie maker / photos In fact it s getting harder to think of things that are…

> - old reddit I use this extension and it's super useful: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/old-reddit-re... The new site is way way slower to load, which i can notice immediately if i open it on a browser that doesn't have the extension installed :/

If you have an a/c, you can just opt out from using new under https://www.reddit.com/prefs/

Re: Software Updates

#90

Post by Fnoord »

arghwhat wrote: post #13
sambeau wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even stable APIs may need security fixes. I'm not convinced a world where APIs continue forever and their exploits do too would be much better than what we have. And I say that as someone who has just accidentally lost an expensive, fully-working piece of audio hardware to an ill-advised software upgrade.

I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of functionality broken by updates have not in any way been related to security mitigations.

I remember Microsoft around 2001 fixing a security issue in Windows Media Player. This security issue was combined with a feature which added DRM support to Windows Media Player. I'm still puzzled by decisions like these, and why they are even legal to begin with.
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