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Estonia is running its country like a tech company

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Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#81

Post by Lucadg »

pavlov wrote: post #23

If you're thinking about starting a company in Estonia under the "e-residency" program, you should know that Estonian banks have recently become very skeptical about opening bank accounts for foreigners. It's not enough that you have an Estonian corporation, you'll probably be expected to demonstrate that your business has actual ties to Estonia. Finnish entrepreneurs are being denied bank accounts despite the close…

I can confirm that. We had to settle for a European fintech after trying many banks.

It feels like the banking system has its own rules and the Estonian government can't do much about it.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#82

Post by krn »

austhrow743 wrote: post #35
znq wrote: post #4

I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…

Did you/people internal to your company set that up or did you use some agency that specialises in incorporating businesses in Estonia?

Xolo Leap[1], formerly LeapIn, is probably the most popular way of starting a company in Estonia as a foreigner.

As an EU citizen, I see Estonian e-residency oriented more towards the people who are from outside the EU and want to establish their presence in the EU market.

For instance, it's one of the easiest ways to get access to Stripe for people from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Israel, Turkey, and many countries from other continents.

But it's not such a good option if you operate from other EU country, such as Germany, because your Estonian company will likely be taxed as a local company there.

In any case, I would personally choose Ireland over Estonia because of the absence of language barrier and almost 40% lower corporate tax, or even the UK, where incorporation is not that much harder or more expensive than in Estonia[2], but regulations are much clearer and laws are much more stable.

[1] https://www.xolo.io/leap

[2] https://www.crunch.co.uk

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#83

Post by atlasunshrugged »

seddona wrote: post #54

Anybody got experience in UK vs Estonia? I have lived and run companies in the UK and USA. The UK is light years ahead of the US in terms of all online interactions with the government. It's also been a long time since I have done any paper-based interaction with the government in the UK, the online systems have been really good for years. Curious how it compares to Estonia.

I don't have a UK/Estonia company but saw the comparisons a lot when I was working for e-Residency. My understanding is that it's pretty comparable in terms of being all online, solid tax structure, etc. For me the two biggest factors would be - where are my clients and how much do I care about having a company in the EU. If most of your clients/employees/ops are in the UK, I would probably keep it there, if they're in the EU or being part of the EU is important to you, I would consider Estonia (plus the instability of Brexit throws a bit of a wrench into the equation)

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#84

Post by RealityVoid »

ahartmetz wrote: post #62
buboard wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries are ran far worse than a company. If citizens had the option to freely jump between countries, most of them would go bankrupt, that's why they rely on coercion. Very few countries are ran efficiently and they re typically very small like Singapore.

Usually only the country one would move to is restricting movement. So what the hell are you talking about?

Obviously, lots of countries people would move _from_ would restrict movement as well. See countries from the former communist block.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#85

Post by allworknoplay »

mtgx wrote: post #12

Before people start praising Estonia for its e-voting system, which inevitably happens on such stories, let me remind you that the system was indeed open to compromise: https://www.zdnet.com/article/estonias-id-card-scrisis-how-e... The timeline may also match the hack the GCHQ and NSA did against the Estonian e-ID provider, Gemalto: https://theintercept.com/2015/02/19/great-sim-heist/ So remember that even with hard…

Came here to post this, their ID system sounded like the greatest thing ever until... It's a monoculture, and therefore extra brittle and subject to attacks. If a country is gonna go all in on a single solution, it had better be a tried-and-true one.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#86

Post by einpoklum »

AhtiK wrote: post #15
znq wrote: post #4

I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…

Important to note that this 20% corporate tax is applied to the taxable payment (e.g. dividend payouts). There are no taxes to pay for the yearly profit, which makes it much easier for companies that do plan to reinvest the income over the years or just hold it. Also, one should probably have employees or customers physically in Estonia, otherwise the company tax residency might change into other jurisdictions.. IANA…

Ah, so it's one of these tax-haven states which accelerates the global "race to the bottom" regarding corporations' tax rate? That's not a good thing IMHO.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#87

Post by corford »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #43
znq wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a business bank account with LHV. For us it was as easy as making an appointment, quickly flying there and walking into their main office in Tallinn. After ~30 minutes everything was set up. That was 3 years ago, though. Maybe things have changed?

Thing is, we are from Russia. And LHV requires some "proof of our company connection with Estonia economy, like existing contract or utility bills". What proof can there be if the company is just started and not fully operational without bank account (hence, no contracts) and is not physically present in Estonia (hence, no utility bills)? It sucks being Russian these days because of our warmongering dictator. :-/

I've heard a borderless account with TransferWise can be a quick, painless route

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#88

Post by einpoklum »

dimitar wrote: post #55

No opinion on Estonia and its e-government, but running a country like a tech company sounds like a plot of a comedy set in a dystopia. I certainly hope that Estonia is ran better than most tech company Tech companies have many problems that I don't want see in a Government: - Security breaches (and just like every other tech company Bulgaria recently had a dump of the personal data of 5 million citizens) - Privacy i…

Actually, reading the article, it seems that "like a Tech company" is just a click-bait title.

The point is that Estonia invested in Internet connectivity penetration, computer literacy for children (and adults too probably), and moved or instituted many/most government services on-line.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#89

Post by vonmoltke »

jaydenseric wrote: post #57
socialdemocrat wrote: post #19

As a Norwegian I can relate to many things written here. Estonia is clearly ahead of us but this thing of not being the innovator but still using off the shelf technology was something I was forced to reflect upon while living in the US 15 years ago. It was surprising how the country behind so much technology innovation was so bad at using it. It was noticeable both in the private and public sector. It was something…

America is very backwards in tech for daily life. About 2 years ago I was blown away when I arrived at the San Francisco airport and had to buy a train card with a Visa card; the customer service guy got flustered and pulled an old carbon paper swiper thing out from under the desk, and asked for my signature. In Australia it's all wireless payWave or PayPass. My Chinese GF uses her phone to pay for things and conside…

> America is very backwards in tech for daily life. About 2 years ago I was blown away when I arrived at the San Francisco airport and had to buy a train card with a Visa card; the customer service guy got flustered and pulled an old carbon paper swiper thing out from under the desk, and asked for my signature.

America is very backwards because of one thing that happened to you that has literally never happened to me in the 21+ years I have been an adult here?

How did you even find a human to pay? I have always used a ticket vending machine at SFO.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#90

Post by lagadu »

pavlov wrote: post #23

If you're thinking about starting a company in Estonia under the "e-residency" program, you should know that Estonian banks have recently become very skeptical about opening bank accounts for foreigners. It's not enough that you have an Estonian corporation, you'll probably be expected to demonstrate that your business has actual ties to Estonia. Finnish entrepreneurs are being denied bank accounts despite the close…

How recently? I opened an account for my Estonian company as an e-resident (from the EU) in Q1 2019 and it took a grand total of ~40 minutes at the bank to get everything working. I had to visit the bank HQ in person but the whole process was really really smooth sailing.
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