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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

propublica.org

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#81

Post by toastercat »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #54
dangus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still an unnecessarily painful solution. I did do these last year to finally kick TurboTax to the curb. However, they’re shamefully complex especially considering how they’re already a piece of software. They barely do basic arithmetic. The restrictions are entirely artificial, and the system is gamed so that you either spend a lot of time learning tax form rules and lingo or you just pay TurboTax to do it f…

What about the free forms is painful? I have only ever filed via these forms - I've never used TurboTax, and my AGI exceeds the limits on the federal free file software. To me, it's pretty simple: you read the instruction book and go through it line by line. If you have odd forms to complete, like paperwork for an HSA, a quick google search will set you in the right direction. People with more complicated tax returns…

I think they are "painful" because they are tedious and unnecessary assuming the government can already pre-fill the information.

You also have to understand that many people may not have the same reading comprehension skills as you do.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#82

Post by justin66 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #60
justin66 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not have the dialogs to walk you through the weird parts of filing a tax return. It's not really comparable to something like TurboTax.

What parts are the "weird parts of filing a tax return"? Not trying to come across as combative, I'm just genuinely curious.

There are a few things that are always extremely odd to figure out (or at least, I always waste a lot of time on them) when preparing the forms. What's deductible vs what isn't with retirement accounts, student loan repayments, and - for the love of God - the Health Savings Account stuff. It's been a long time since I had to think about it but I'm sure some hn users have struggles figuring out their stock options.

TurboTax asks you questions and guides you through entering the data. It's all fairly intuitive and you'll have a feel for whether you've done everything completely. Free Fillable Forms, which I've used the last couple of times, is just one step up from doing everything on paper. It is not bad if you know what you're in for, but it is not the same experience as something like TurboTax or the H&R Block tool.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#83

Post by Angostura »

MrGilbert wrote: post #37
lqet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for El ektronische St euer er klärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices. OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], wh…

ELSTER is one of the few examples that come into my mind in terms of "software done right": It's stable and "just works", at least for me. It's first version was released to the public in 1999, so... Yes, ELSTER is around for almost 20 years now, getting constantly refined at least in the front-end. All in all, it's something you wouldn't have expected here in Germany in terms of software projects from the government…

I have to say that the UK's HMRC web-based self-assessment site has always struck me as being a really good example of tax returns done right.

It presents as the equivalent of the paper form but with many of the fields autocalculating for you, and offering contextual help. Quite nifty.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#84

Post by peteradio »

jedimastert wrote: post #49
HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #20

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me. Can the government please make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploit…

> Can the government please make something that's easy to use? To be frank, the government has issues making things usable, and "usable" is a pretty small target when you're talking about the entire US workforce.

The government has issues holding private companies accountable when they fail to deliver.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#85

Post by trauco »

gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

Same in Chile. If you have a regular, salaried job, your employer reports your earnings and all income taxes that have been paid, your bank reports your interest income, etc.

It takes less than 5 minutes to do your taxes unless you have unusual sources of income.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#86

Post by justin66 »

vonmoltke wrote: post #34
Ensorceled wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this article on how Intuit is working to prevent free filing, ProPublica focuses on Intuit? Why is this surprising? ProPublica seems really broad in the topics they cover: https://www.propublica.org/topics/ They also have multiple articles covering other types of tax reform and on closing tax loopholes if you search their database.

> In this article on how Intuit is working to prevent free filing, ProPublica focuses on Intuit? Why is this surprising? My issue is that the article, and many posters here, make it sound like all the ills of the US tax system trace back to Intuit. Statements like (emphasis mine) > Intuit fended off the government’s attempts to make tax filing free and easy and > But the success of TurboTax rests on a shaky foundatio…

> My issue is that the article, and many posters here, make it sound like all the ills of the US tax system trace back to Intuit.

Nobody except you is taking the article to imply that.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#87

Post by cpwright »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #20

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me. Can the government please make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploit…

Filing taxes does not actually require a separate company to help with. You can download the PDFs (or go to the post office), read the directions and fill them out yourself.

I have never actually done that; but my parents did well after I was using software, which sure is more convenient.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#88

Post by vonmoltke »

Ensorceled wrote: post #64
vonmoltke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this article on how Intuit is working to prevent free filing, ProPublica focuses on Intuit? Why is this surprising? My issue is that the article, and many posters here, make it sound like all the ills of the US tax system trace back to Intuit. Statements like (emphasis mine) > Intuit fended off the government’s attempts to make tax filing free and easy and > But the success of TurboTax rests on a shaky foundatio…

This is "whataboutism" at it's finest. This article is on Intuit. It's focused on Intuit's bad behaviour. ProPublica has other articles on the issues you are complaining about.

> This is "whataboutism" at it's finest.

That's not "whataboutism" at all, as I'm not defending Intuit's behavior.

> This article is on Intuit. It's focused on Intuit's bad behaviour. ProPublica has other articles on the issues you are complaining about.

I'm saying ProPublica should have referenced those articles, rather than making statements that imply everything is the tax preparation industry's fault.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#89

Post by bluGill »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #60
justin66 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not have the dialogs to walk you through the weird parts of filing a tax return. It's not really comparable to something like TurboTax.

What parts are the "weird parts of filing a tax return"? Not trying to come across as combative, I'm just genuinely curious.

Copy line 13 of form 8765 to line 32 of form 5432... This is more tedious, except that it gets very easy to miss one of those steps in the list of things that don't apply. (most people have never worked for the railroad and skip a bunch of steps for railroad retirees)

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#90

Post by rb808 »

This is just a convenient excuse for 3 layers of politicians with their own filing requirements, each one trying to get tax breaks for their favorite constituents. If we had a simple tax system there would be less power for politicians and less they can negotiate with. Blaming Turbo Tax is silly.
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