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The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

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Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#81

Post by gok »

mkohlmyr wrote: post #77
class4behavior wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the comments right at the top a video was posted about that. Some evidently neoliberal group blaming environmentalists and labor unions for the high construction costs in the US. As if their counter examples, Canada, Japan, and the UK, don't have even better established labor unions and environmental oversight.

I mean I don't think saying that the unions in the US inflate costs is too out there.. Perhaps this is just my perception, but I would say the difference is that European unions (at least northern European, can't speak to the rest of Europe) seem less inclined to engage in dodgy behaviour than their US counterparts. I'm specifically thinking about construction, ports, etc. I mean the fact that there are people employ…

The issue isn't unions per se, it's that there's overt collusion between the unions and the government officials who are supposed to be controlling costs. The United States has the unique situation where those government officials are often directly affiliated with the union they're supposed to be negotiating with. You can guess what happens when both sides have an incentive for costs to overrun and timetables to be blown.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#83

Post by mcv »

cesarb wrote: post #66
rayiner wrote: post #52

Just 850 million euros of public money to build a mile and a half long tunnel under downtown! (Under a billion euros total.) A bi-level tunnel, with separate express and local levels, and four lanes on each level. By contrast, the SR99 tunnel in Seattle was about 1/3 longer, cost $3-4 billion, depending on how lawsuits shake out, and has half the capacity (two levels with two lanes each). The Big Dig in Boston was th…

Different technologies. Judging from this article, this Maastricht tunnel seems to have been built as a "cut and cover" tunnel, while according to Wikipedia, that SR99 tunnel was built with a tunnel boring machine. AFAIK, the cut and cover method is much cheaper (but more disruptive during the construction, and can only be used for shallow tunnels like this one).

Boring tunnels is also hard in the muddy Dutch soil. It was used in Amsterdam for the new Noord-Zuid-lijn, which had tons of complications and went way over deadline and budget by an enormous amount.

Although if there's a part of the country that is suitable for boring, it's probably Maastricht, which is in the tiny part of the country that has actual hills.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#84

Post by mcv »

gield wrote: post #49
apexalpha wrote: post #2

My hometown! Cool to see it on HN. Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. Yes. Traffic lights on a highway, in the middle of a city. As if the highway in the middle of a city wasn't annoyinh enough the traffic lights added some extra noise, fumes and pollution. The new tunnel has been the most magnificent change I've ever seen. And IIRC the entire project was within budget and…

>Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. I know Belgian traffic can be hell but going through Maastricht on the way from Amsterdam to Paris would be quite the detour :)

True. I tend to take either Brussels or Ghent. Maastricht is more appropriate if you want to go to Lyon rather than Paris.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#85

Post by rayiner »

skrebbel wrote: post #73
gimmeThaBeet wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So like, what's the deal? Is that level of efficiency common in Netherlands/Europe or were they just as surprised? What are they doing that they can end up with such a disparate outcome with regards to what most people expect from an ambitious public infrastructure project like that? Like, I don't even think it's cynicism at this point that when you see they want to do something with the MTA or the Metro, they'll say…

The "Noord-Zuid-Lijn" new metro line in Amsterdam was a classic disaster like so many others. I guess the answer is "we have fuckups too but not all the time". Could it be the case though that the same holds for the US? I mean usually if something is on time and within budget it doesn't make the news just as much :D

That’s your “disaster?” 6 miles of new train line (4.5 underground) for $3.5 billion. Total construction time 15 years.

The first phase of the Second Avenue subway cost $4.5 billion for just 2 miles, and took 10 years. The next 1.5 mile segment will cost $6 billion (that’s just the estimate) and take another 10 years. And that’s not even all that over budget or delayed.

I’ve never encountered a major public project in the US that was on budget and on time. I’m sure there are some, but that’s not the rule. Here in the DC area, we recently spent $150 million on a bus station (it’s a nice, 3 level bus station on existing public land). That was delayed and was $50 million over budget. The $6 million renovation project in the parking garage at the metro station nearest to me is years behind schedule. The purple line in Maryland is years late and billions over budget. The silver line in Virginia is years late and billions over budget.

Your “disaster” would be a miracle in a major US city. Such a miracle that few cities are even contemplating such things. DC, for example, is growing rapidly, and WMATA desperately needs another tunnel through downtown. And people are willing to spend that kind of money—WMATA just invested $6 billion and a decade constructing the silver line to Virginia. And Maryland is investing a similar amount in a light rail through the suburbs. But a downtown tunnel would be a $15+ billion, 20-year project here.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#86

Post by runarberg »

mkohlmyr wrote: post #77
class4behavior wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the comments right at the top a video was posted about that. Some evidently neoliberal group blaming environmentalists and labor unions for the high construction costs in the US. As if their counter examples, Canada, Japan, and the UK, don't have even better established labor unions and environmental oversight.

I mean I don't think saying that the unions in the US inflate costs is too out there.. Perhaps this is just my perception, but I would say the difference is that European unions (at least northern European, can't speak to the rest of Europe) seem less inclined to engage in dodgy behaviour than their US counterparts. I'm specifically thinking about construction, ports, etc. I mean the fact that there are people employ…

I like to say this and HN never takes it too kindly, but it seems like corruption is the problem in the US, not unions. Many people just like to “blame the union” and leave it at that, without actually asking the logical follow-up question: “What is it exactly that the unions are supposedly doing, and can it be stopped?”

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#87

Post by jdhawk »

sillyquiet wrote: post #41

There were (mostly dead) plans for a while to do something similar with I-35 in Austin, Texas. https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2019/04/the-idea-to-bu... I very much doubt it will come to fruition any time soon given the political climate.

But, where would the homeless camp?

All joking aside, if its not a toll road is not getting built in Austin. I'd love to Dig & Cap I-35 all the way to airport blvd.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#88

Post by mrguyorama »

andrepd wrote: post #74
Sharlin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noise and particulate pollution are perhaps the most external of the negative externalities of automobiles, riders being mostly insulated from their own emissions and from those of their peers. It feels fundamentally unfair.

I had the wonderful privilege of, by pure coincidence, having no cars pass through the road that I walk on my way to work, for about 4 or 5 minutes. I was stunned at the sheer peaceful silence of it. No "broooom" noise, no metallic screeching of brakes, no gasoline smell, no burnt clutch smell, no "dirty auto shop" smell in general. Just the trees rustling softly, faint chatter from the primary school kids some 100m…

Most car noise on high speed roads is tire noise, not engine noise

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#89

Post by thatfrenchguy »

rayiner wrote: post #52

Just 850 million euros of public money to build a mile and a half long tunnel under downtown! (Under a billion euros total.) A bi-level tunnel, with separate express and local levels, and four lanes on each level. By contrast, the SR99 tunnel in Seattle was about 1/3 longer, cost $3-4 billion, depending on how lawsuits shake out, and has half the capacity (two levels with two lanes each). The Big Dig in Boston was th…

> the A2 tunnel cost only modestly more than it’s costing San Francisco to simply reconfigure Market Street to shut down through traffic

Salaries in San Francisco and Maastricht are widely different.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#90

Post by learnstats2 »

LeonM wrote: post #19
melling wrote: post #5

Los Angeles is going to build a wildlife overpass: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/worlds-largest-highway-overpass... Pedestrians and nature need to be given a higher priority.

The Netherlands is also well known for their ecopassages over highways (also known as ecoducts), according to Wikipedia there are 66 eco passages in the Netherlands as of 2015 [0]. There are some nice pictures of them in the wiki article as well. [0] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecopassage

It was very noticeable to me in Dutch cities that there is wildlife.
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