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The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

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Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#81

Post by starvingbear »

greggman2 wrote: post #68

Since remote work seems to be the topic this article on async communication spawned I wanted to throw this out there for reactions. First off let me acknowledge that some people prefer remote work and also say up front I do not. I recent YouAreNotSoSmart podcast interviewed Laurie Santos from Yale and if I understood her research basically claims we often both individually and as a society choose things we think will…

I think it's absolutely true that most people will prefer an office or at least a community to work in most the time in person. I've done both and normally prefer an office. However most offices nowadays are very badly run and promote open layout and daily scrums etc. If offices weren't effectively sabotaged this way they would be much better. Every office critique in the OP article was made as well by my father in convo. He isn't in tech but ran a small biz his whole life. Not unique problems to tech we just have a weird culture atm. So my thought is the breakout companies that are learning how to respect engineering and get away from the hokey practices of current middle management will be the only ones attracting senior talent. Things will shift eventually and the office can maybe make a comeback.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#82

Post by tyfon »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

Personally I work remotely in Norway with a similar commute, but I do travel into the office for some face to face meetings. Most is done via slack or something similar though and my productivity is vastly higher. I also don't need to waste 2 hours every day of my personal time that I can instead spend with my wife and children.

They also save on office space.. I don't see how this is not a win win for everyone either.

Your ex CEO sounds like a psychopath.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#83

Post by mLuby »

greggman2 wrote: post #68

Since remote work seems to be the topic this article on async communication spawned I wanted to throw this out there for reactions. First off let me acknowledge that some people prefer remote work and also say up front I do not. I recent YouAreNotSoSmart podcast interviewed Laurie Santos from Yale and if I understood her research basically claims we often both individually and as a society choose things we think will…

I accept there's some daily "human interaction" quota for optimal happiness, but reject that ordering a big mac in person moves that needle at all. At a store where the salesperson walks you through options for a few minutes, sure, but not for purely transactional interactions.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#84

Post by rgacote »

mkolodny wrote: post #33
settsu wrote: post #22

The issue I often have with discussions of remote work vs. on-site, is how much confirmation bias tends to be incorporated into the conclusions made. After about 16 years of on-site work (at various jobs), I did almost 5 years of remote work (for a single company), having just recently returned to an in-office role (despite focusing on landing another remote position, the best opportunity wasn’t.) And, frankly, I fin…

While "remote workers are more productive" is in the article's title, I disagree that the author is suggesting that working remotely is a necessary part of the solution. The article's subtitle is "Async isn’t just for remote teams". I think the post makes it clear to that office workers could benefit a ton from async communication. And I agree completely. Sync communication at my previous job was such a drain on my p…

Switched from Slack to Twist six months ago and have not looked back. Slack is great if you need your focus to be online and immediate response. However, as a developer, I found Slack to be nothing but constant interruptions and needing to dig back through long threads wondering if I missed something important. Life is much saner (and productive) after switching to Twist.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#85

Post by jschwartzi »

greggman2 wrote: post #68

Since remote work seems to be the topic this article on async communication spawned I wanted to throw this out there for reactions. First off let me acknowledge that some people prefer remote work and also say up front I do not. I recent YouAreNotSoSmart podcast interviewed Laurie Santos from Yale and if I understood her research basically claims we often both individually and as a society choose things we think will…

Here's an anecdote for you. I work remote and normally make time for activities or groups at least a few times a week. Once, after something upset me I decided to spend a couple weeks not going out. I rapidly went toasty. By the end of the first week I couldn't concentrate on anything. I was restless, anxious, and desperately unhappy. So yes, I need some social interaction to feel normal. But it doesn't come from my co-workers.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#86

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

tyfon wrote: post #82
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

Personally I work remotely in Norway with a similar commute, but I do travel into the office for some face to face meetings. Most is done via slack or something similar though and my productivity is vastly higher. I also don't need to waste 2 hours every day of my personal time that I can instead spend with my wife and children. They also save on office space.. I don't see how this is not a win win for everyone eithe…

That's South/Central Europe for you. Not everywhere is as evolved as Norway.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#87

Post by chrisweekly »

precisioncoder wrote: post #28
oh_sigh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the problem is you were trying to invalidate their e tire management worldview with those studies. Instead, a more effective strategy might have been convincing management that while their methods were generally fine, for your specific case you might buck the trend. At least, that's how I've had luck with this problem. And also reassuring(and proving through my actions) that they wouldn't need to devote special…

Logic doesn't matter, it's the ability to sell it. This goes for almost all major decisions which are usually decided based on emotional "gut feelings" rather than logic and statistics. I would suggest something like: "I've been crunching the numbers on how to increase efficiency and been pleasantly surprised at how well we're performing compared to our competition. I was thinking of trying an experiment based on thi…

Mostly good advice. Along similar lines (w/ more detail of course), see DHH's book "REMOTE" which includes advice on how to sell the idea to mgmt. As a first step I'd recommend starting even smaller though, vs framing it as a new and demonstrably better way for projectS to be done in general (ie, a big change). See if you can find a way to demonstrate the benefits on a personal/individual level, without making a big deal of it. If you can start the bigger conversation (involving teams / processes / policies) already armed with evidence of success at your current workplace, you'll gain credibility and engender confidence / assuage fears of those in management who need convincing.

For my part, I've been self-employed (full-time consulting), 98% remote, for about 3 years. Before that, in almost 20 years of traditional software-related jobs, about half my working days were remote. I was fortunate in being able to insist on a high degree of autonomy wrt how/where/when I got my work done, for most of my positions. Not always possible, but you'll never get the freedom if you don't look for the oppty and make the case for it.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#88

Post by ninkendo »

This article hits on a lot of good points to me, because I often see people treat chat like it's a stand-in for an IRL conversation.

People will start conversations with just "Hello", and wait for me to respond, as if we're talking on the phone or something. This, to me, fundamentally misses out on the benefits of online communication: You don't need to wait to establish a conversation with me to ask me your question; you can just come out with it. And your question/problem can become just another item on my TODO list, which I can prioritize throughout the day:

- If it's something I can answer/address right away, I can do so

- If it's something that will take some investigation, I can start investigating it (and let you know how much time I'll need, etc)

- If it's something clearly low-priority, I can wait until later when I'm not as busy to address it

- If it's something that doesn't really make sense, or there are things I can explain to you to help point you in the right direction, I can spend a moment to help dig up some information for you.

If you just say "Hello" (or "Ping", etc) you're taking away my ability to prioritize your question/problem, and are asking me to agree to spend time on something before I know what it is.

If instead you begin the conversation with the question/problem that needs addressing, you're adding an item to my TODO queue, which can be re-sorted/re-prioritized continuously throughout the day, and allows me to be more effective. I can get to your question when it makes sense for me to do so.

I have my status permanently set to http://nohello.com to hopefully drive this point home with people, and anecdotally I've seen a lot less drive-by "Hello" messages on Slack. Additionally I've just stopped responding to people when they say "Hello". I just hope that doesn't come off as me being a jerk, though...

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#89

Post by [deleted] »

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

I work remotely. I've noticed that one thing that make me work harder than in an office, is that I feel that I need to earn the trust that my employer gives me. In an office, sometimes I feel that just being there is enough to justify my salary, even if I'm just chatting with colleagues or browsing the web. I discipline myself better when I work remotely. Another thing that makes a difference for me: I suffer from ba…

[deleted]

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#90

Post by monkeydust »

Personally I think flexibility is the future. Allow employees to decide or work inhouse or remotely. I work in a very large financial services technology company. I value to closeness to colleges and the quick, sharp interactions that can happen with that - but - there are times when I am wokring on something larger I would be more effective at home or a remote location where sales etc can physically come to my desk and suck my time.
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