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Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

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Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#81

Post by mytailorisrich »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80
mytailorisrich wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there would be arguments that a certain symbol or action is political. No because they would not allow anything. > Like FIFA ludicrously deciding that a poppy on a Remembrance Sunday international is political If you start allowing this sort of display to commemorate a war then you open the door to plenty of highly political displays because wars are obviously highly political and sensitive issues. Even in the…

Hardly, it's a symbol of remembrance of dead, not of a war. It's a hell of a stretch to call the use of a white poppy political. Most remembrance ceremonies have veterans of both sides attending, and are used for reconcilliation - unlike e.g. WW2 anniversaries such as the now comically overblown D Day fun days.

War dead.

If they start to allow one country to commemorate their war dead then they have to allow other countries to do the same, and as said these can be very political and sensitive issues. And then if they allow that why not another commemoration? Thus it is sensible not to allow anything.

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#82

Post by NeedMoreTea »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #81
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly, it's a symbol of remembrance of dead, not of a war. It's a hell of a stretch to call the use of a white poppy political. Most remembrance ceremonies have veterans of both sides attending, and are used for reconcilliation - unlike e.g. WW2 anniversaries such as the now comically overblown D Day fun days.

War dead. If they start to allow one country to commemorate their war dead then they have to allow other countries to do the same, and as said these can be very political and sensitive issues. And then if they allow that why not another commemoration? Thus it is sensible not to allow anything.

Pretty much the whole of Europe marks remembrance day. It is about reconciliation and as far as it can be made so, is apolitical. Politicians of all sides and nationalities, including the "other" side have and do attend different country events. Perhaps less so with this generation of politicians who will make a cup of tea political if they can, but that is not the act of remembrance.

Not to mark _a_ war, but all war. That point is important.

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#83

Post by mytailorisrich »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #82
mytailorisrich wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War dead. If they start to allow one country to commemorate their war dead then they have to allow other countries to do the same, and as said these can be very political and sensitive issues. And then if they allow that why not another commemoration? Thus it is sensible not to allow anything.

Pretty much the whole of Europe marks remembrance day. It is about reconciliation and as far as it can be made so, is apolitical. Politicians of all sides and nationalities, including the "other" side have and do attend different country events. Perhaps less so with this generation of politicians who will make a cup of tea political if they can, but that is not the act of remembrance. Not to mark _a_ war, but all war…

I don't understand what's the argument about here.

Commemorating war dead is a sensitive issue. FIFA has to take all situations across the world into account. It is sensible for them not to allow any display and to keep to it without exception even if the British think that they are special. No big deal, just keep football purely about sport.

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#84

Post by NeedMoreTea »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #83
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much the whole of Europe marks remembrance day. It is about reconciliation and as far as it can be made so, is apolitical. Politicians of all sides and nationalities, including the "other" side have and do attend different country events. Perhaps less so with this generation of politicians who will make a cup of tea political if they can, but that is not the act of remembrance. Not to mark _a_ war, but all war…

I don't understand what's the argument about here. Commemorating war dead is a sensitive issue. FIFA has to take all situations across the world into account. It is sensible for them not to allow any display and to keep to it without exception even if the British think that they are special. No big deal, just keep football purely about sport.

> the British think that they are special

lol. You are aware that just about the entire developed world, and a fair proportion of the rest mark the same day, right? It's called Veteran's Day in the US, also on November 11th.

Not marking it would be the political statement.

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#85

Post by koonsolo »

glogla wrote: post #78
koonsolo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to ask the question as a company, to allow politics to enter your space. Now it is supporting HK, next time it is against nazi's, next time maybe against Trump. Once you disallow one, you will "pick a side". I'm not saying this ban was good or bad, I'm just saying it's more complex than picking side in that debate. Maybe they just don't want to get into the shit of any political debate. But for the rest, all…

What you're saying seems to be built on assumption that all "politics" is the same. It absolutely isn't. Evil (fascism, concentration camps, ehtnic cleansing, ...) and fighting against evil, are both political stances, but they are very different. And "let's not interfere with evil because it would be politics (or affect our bottom line)" is definitely political stance - it's picking the evil side.

Is Trump evil? It's not clear to me, so maybe you have the answer.

At some point, the line of evilness becomes so thin that you will have to "pick a side" if you have done it before. Easier to just not go down that route.

But still, is Trump evil?

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#86

Post by radiator »

glogla wrote: post #78
koonsolo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to ask the question as a company, to allow politics to enter your space. Now it is supporting HK, next time it is against nazi's, next time maybe against Trump. Once you disallow one, you will "pick a side". I'm not saying this ban was good or bad, I'm just saying it's more complex than picking side in that debate. Maybe they just don't want to get into the shit of any political debate. But for the rest, all…

What you're saying seems to be built on assumption that all "politics" is the same. It absolutely isn't. Evil (fascism, concentration camps, ehtnic cleansing, ...) and fighting against evil, are both political stances, but they are very different. And "let's not interfere with evil because it would be politics (or affect our bottom line)" is definitely political stance - it's picking the evil side.

I would say this is a rather childish view of the world, to separate things into two categories, evil and good.

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#87

Post by pinouchon »

craftoman wrote: post #70

I keep tracking Blizzard cause I play Hearthstone from time to time. This company is unethical, it doesn't even care or respect their own employees and you can see it based on their previous scandals. They are treating both designers & developers like money making machines and they ruined almost every of aspect of their games. They spend millions of dollars in tournaments and always trick their costumers into buying…

They shouldn't have accepted to get bought by Activision. The only way they make good games now is by releasing old titles (sc remastered, classic, reforged)... And now this

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#88

Post by makomk »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #81
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly, it's a symbol of remembrance of dead, not of a war. It's a hell of a stretch to call the use of a white poppy political. Most remembrance ceremonies have veterans of both sides attending, and are used for reconcilliation - unlike e.g. WW2 anniversaries such as the now comically overblown D Day fun days.

War dead. If they start to allow one country to commemorate their war dead then they have to allow other countries to do the same, and as said these can be very political and sensitive issues. And then if they allow that why not another commemoration? Thus it is sensible not to allow anything.

The poppy doesn't even commemorate people who died in the war as a whole. It's specifically about the soldiers who were fighting the war and killing for it, and that's why it's politically controversial - the whole thing has jingoistic pro-war, pro-military overtones and they seem to have become more dominant over the years, especially after we helped invade Afghasnistan and Iraq and the British Legion decided to to make it a symbol of support for our soldiers there. Perhaps the best symbol of what it has become was the time the British Legion decided that a photo of little kids in "future soldier" shirts waving huge inflatable poppies was a good representation of the values the campaign represented...

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#89

Post by glogla »

radiator wrote: post #86
glogla wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying seems to be built on assumption that all "politics" is the same. It absolutely isn't. Evil (fascism, concentration camps, ehtnic cleansing, ...) and fighting against evil, are both political stances, but they are very different. And "let's not interfere with evil because it would be politics (or affect our bottom line)" is definitely political stance - it's picking the evil side.

I would say this is a rather childish view of the world, to separate things into two categories, evil and good.

If you consider concentration camps, gulags, or whatever as anything other than evil, I don't think I can convince you.

Such way of thinking seems really alien to me.

Re: Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

#90

Post by glogla »

koonsolo wrote: post #85
glogla wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying seems to be built on assumption that all "politics" is the same. It absolutely isn't. Evil (fascism, concentration camps, ehtnic cleansing, ...) and fighting against evil, are both political stances, but they are very different. And "let's not interfere with evil because it would be politics (or affect our bottom line)" is definitely political stance - it's picking the evil side.

Is Trump evil? It's not clear to me, so maybe you have the answer. At some point, the line of evilness becomes so thin that you will have to "pick a side" if you have done it before. Easier to just not go down that route. But still, is Trump evil?

> Is Trump evil? It's not clear to me

Trump is corrupt, abuser, a fascist, arguably a traitor of American people. He's racist, sexist and he gives his support to horrible movements (like KKK and alt-right) and normalizes their views. He's responsible for ICE and putting children in concentration camps.

There must be huge gap between perspectives, because I don't understand how it something like this can be unclear.

If not this guy, who would you consider evil if anyone?

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