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Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

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Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#81

Post by mavhc »

marcosdumay wrote: post #57
MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

I don't see people talking about reducing packaging. It was all about prohibiting shopping bags, and after that failed they got that turtle video and changed into prohibiting straws. What is doomed to fail again. You won't save the planet by focusing at the least effective, most demanding action one can do.

What failed about encouraging people to reuse shopping bags instead of having single use bags by charging for bags?

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#82

Post by proaralyst »

tomp wrote: post #77
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

I sometimes wonder if this "plastic straw" wasn't another of 4Chan's trolling attempts... Like, sure, reduce plastic straw usage, but most bars just replaced them with paper straws. That is obviously a stupidly wrong solution, the vast majority of the population can easily manage without straws entirely, so really it just shows that people don't actually care about the environment, it's all just virtue signalling...

Why are paper straws the wrong solution? Even if they take a little more energy to produce they at least don't leave long-term waste behind.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#83

Post by random314 »

weiming wrote: post #30

Extensive air pollution from China or India that surpasses the West also doesn't seem to get much attention, e.g. [1] [2] Greta visited the US and gave some compelling speeches. Will she visit China and India and do the same? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-... [2] https://qz.com/india/1581665/indias-carbon-emissions-growing...

What aboutism is all well and good. But climate change is a much bigger planet wide threat compared to local air pollution in India and China, which mostly affects locals in India and China. On a per capita basis the western world, especially USA, contribute the most co2 emissions. So that is where the climate protests should start. And dumping all kinds of what aboutism criticisms on a 16 year old is not a good look.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#84

Post by [deleted] »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

[deleted]

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#85

Post by tomp »

lonelappde wrote: post #44
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

So your proposal is what, New York City should somehow ban ocean fishing, instead of controlling plastic waste in it's jurisdiction?

Why not? Ban fish from unsustainable and environmentally unfriendly sources. 10 million New Yorkers represent enough buying power to marginally change the economic incentives for fishing companies worldwide.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#86

Post by johnsea »

I don't believe this. -- About two years ago there was a study which said that 88 to 95 percent of the total global load of plastics in the oceans [edit: wrong see below] would come from 10 rivers:

- https://phys.org/news/2017-10-plastic-rivers-stem-plastics-o...

- https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 and link to table https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611/tables/1

Still, of course, fishermen shouldn't throw their plastic bottles over board and better care to their fishing nets.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#87

Post by acdanger »

proaralyst wrote: post #82
tomp wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if this "plastic straw" wasn't another of 4Chan's trolling attempts... Like, sure, reduce plastic straw usage, but most bars just replaced them with paper straws. That is obviously a stupidly wrong solution, the vast majority of the population can easily manage without straws entirely, so really it just shows that people don't actually care about the environment, it's all just virtue signalling...

Why are paper straws the wrong solution? Even if they take a little more energy to produce they at least don't leave long-term waste behind.

There was a video on YouTube of a sea turtle with a straw lodged in its nose. I believe that was the spark the set off the straw-less movement.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#88

Post by intarga »

fulvous wrote: post #48
irrational wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the ocean is being overfished and is being polluted by fishing. The clear answer is to ban fishing. Though, as someone who dislikes all seafood, this is easy for me to say.

"Approximately 1 billion people people are dependent on fish as the principal source of animal protein" http://www.suds-en-ligne.ird.fr/ecosys/ang_ecosys/intro1.htm

Is there something in particular necessary about animal protein, that it gets a distinct category from just protein in general?

It also stands to reason that if that many people really are dependent on fish, it will be devastating to them when overfishing and pollution destroy fish stocks. All the more reason to reduce fishing and build alternatives now.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#89

Post by areyousure »

johnsea wrote: post #86

I don't believe this. -- About two years ago there was a study which said that 88 to 95 percent of the total global load of plastics in the oceans [edit: wrong see below] would come from 10 rivers: - https://phys.org/news/2017-10-plastic-rivers-stem-plastics-o... - https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 and link to table https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611/tables/1 Still, of course, fishermen shouldn't t…

From your own source:

> Now scientists have found that 10 rivers around the world where plastic waste is mismanaged contribute to most of the oceans' total loads THAT COME FROM RIVERS.

(emphasis mine)

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#90

Post by MiroF »

spinach wrote: post #79
jajag wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that air pollution is emitted producing products for the US & European markets.

Exactly. It's pollution that we directly benefit from, it's not fair to think our countries are better at the protecting the environment when everything we buy is made there instead of having the dirty factories/industries in our own countries.

It's interesting seeing how the Right is changing it's rhetoric as public opinion changes.

A few years ago it was "this isn't happening" now it's "these other people do it far worse than we do."

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