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The myth of the teacher pay gap?

nationalaffairs.com

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Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#81

Post by filmgirlcw »

shantly wrote: post #32
SamuelAdams wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> required to have a masters degree This isn't true from my experience. I have several friends who teach K-12 education. They only have a bachelor's degree, many times in different areas than what they are teaching (English degree teaching Math, for example).

My wife's about to hit a wall on pay increases at right at $40k if she doesn't get a master's degree. Never get another real raise, just sub-inflation bumps every year. With quite a damn while left until retirement. Mind, the master's degrees most teachers get aren't exactly hard —there's a giant market for easy-as-pie degrees for teachers for exactly this reason, and that's what most universities deliver and what mo…

Right -- if you want to get above that wall, you need a Masters. And many then go on to get an Ed.S (specialist) and even a Ph.D.

As you say, there is a whole cottage industry of online accredited places (Liberty University, which I don't even consider to be the level of University of Phoenix, is accredited/recognized (unlike University of Phoenix) and used by MANY teachers in the state of Georgia, for instance -- I have a hunch there is some sort of financial relationship between the state and Liberty but I have no proof) -- some counties even offer easy access to loans/do tuition reimbursement.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#82

Post by filmgirlcw »

Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This seems to use private education as a benchmark for the entire argument. From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions (meaning private education cannot be used as a benchmark for when someone is under-paid, over-qualified, or has too high of a quit rate because they are…

I would note that at least based on the educators I know, private schools often tend to pay LESS than public. Obviously, this may be dependent on area, but in Georgia at least, teachers at private schools typically make less once you factor in things like 401k, retirement, and health insurance. A lot less.

This is an anecdote but my cousin's wife quit her job at a public high school to work at a private school, allegedly for a more flexible schedule/slightly better base pay. She was then diagnosed with cancer (and at 35, that wasn't something she/her family was expecting) and the benefits for sick leave, not to mention medical costs, were so much worse, it was basically a nightmare. Fortunately, her husband kept his education job for the county so the insurance situation was a lot better -- but she lost access to a lot of other benefits that had a very high monetary and quality of life value.

I have other friends back home who left public schools for private, thinking they'd make more money -- found out the grass was not greener -- and then had a hell of a time getting a job back in their old school system.

It may be true in some areas with really poor public schools that private is going to pay better -- but public or private, as you say, in many cases, the pay just isn't going to be great.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#83

Post by ArtDev »

I was just talking to my daughter about why her teachers might be grumpy. Low pay, high stress, high responsibility jobs will do that.

If you ever wonder if they underpaid, go ask one. They would be happy to complain, I am sure.

"Well,I don't want to be a teacher",my daughter said. "Well I don't blame you", I said.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#84

Post by user5994461 »

crumpets wrote: post #71
Someone1234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the private sector, salaries are based on how much one's involvement in some endeavor causes that endeavor to generate more revenue That's never been my experience. I've seen people add tons of quantifiable value to a business, including dock loaders, customer facing staff, and even cleaners but in spite of their value being quantifiable they weren't rewarded. Clients and customers would literally say that staff…

No, value to the business only sets the ceiling. The floor comes from the labor supply side of the market. (i.e. can the company find qualified people willing to do it at X rate)

Value to the business is the floor more often than not. Plenty of business activities simply don't generate much money in the first place, with salaries capped accordingly. Albeit not the typical tech company or F500.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#85

Post by mikeryan »

The more I read articles in education based on national numbers the more I realize that national macroeconomic views are pretty much meaningless compared to local micro views.

I don't care how much teachers make nationally, - I care how much teachers make at my local schools.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#86

Post by ArtDev »

gridlockd wrote: post #67

Why do teachers have such an elevated standing in society anyways? If we're being honest, schools are, for the most part, daycare centers. Secondary education is, for the most part, completely useless. Yet, unlike with most other professions, the government guarantees that those glorified daycare jobs will continue to exist. Why should these jobs pay well?

It requires expertise, skill, education and a strong personality.

Where did you go to school? Sounds like a bad one.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#87

Post by joe_the_user »

mikeryan wrote: post #85

The more I read articles in education based on national numbers the more I realize that national macroeconomic views are pretty much meaningless compared to local micro views. I don't care how much teachers make nationally, - I care how much teachers make at my local schools.

I suppose then people elsewhere are expected not to care what teachers at your local school make then? Isn't politics about seeing a larger picture?

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#88

Post by AdrianB1 »

mikeryan wrote: post #85

The more I read articles in education based on national numbers the more I realize that national macroeconomic views are pretty much meaningless compared to local micro views. I don't care how much teachers make nationally, - I care how much teachers make at my local schools.

Actually national view adjusted for the cost of living is still interesting. The unadjusted numbers are not so relevant, given some huge differences between parts of the country - looking at SV at the high end one still wonders how the average teacher could live there.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#89

Post by rconti »

shantly wrote: post #44
Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This seems to use private education as a benchmark for the entire argument. From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions (meaning private education cannot be used as a benchmark for when someone is under-paid, over-qualified, or has too high of a quit rate because they are…

> From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions Most of the private schools around here pay a lot worse than the public schools, especially if you factor in total comp w/ benefits. We have a tiny number with high enough tuition that they might pay well (but I wouldn't count…

Yeah, I'm not in education, but I was surprised to 'learn' that private schools generally pay less than their public counterparts -- and I've continued to understand that to be the case, but I'd love more information on the matter to correct any misunderstandings I might have.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#90

Post by TeMPOraL »

crdoconnor wrote: post #79
crumpets wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how society decides salaries. It seems pretty arbitrary from my perspective. Society doesn't "decide". It's a decided by the labor market. Nobody wants to pay programmers six figures. It's a myth that we think teachers are less important than programmers because they make less on average. There is just a larger supply of qualified teachers willing to work at lower prices. Wait until you find out how little art histo…

The labor market is a tool of society. It's like any other tool: it can be fixed or supplemented or even swapped out with something else if it doesn't perform its function effectively.

It's true, and while I also believe teachers should be paid more relative to other occupations, labor market has one thing going for it that makes it hard to replace - it's a very simple process that doesn't require any central coordination.
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